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Camberwell 2007

Published by Peter | Filed under Development, Eating & Drinking, Events, General

Happy New Year to all readers (who conform to the Gregorian calendar)!

NYE was a three stage affair for wife and me: first a curry at the Khyber Indian restaurant in Stockwell; it doesn’t look like much from outside (or inside, for that matter), but the food was great. After that we went to a party at a friend of a friend’s house; we didn’t know beforehand that it was a party for the friends of Dorothy, so we felt a little out of place, but the hosts were very welcoming and their back garden afforded a nice clear view of the London Eye and the firework extravaganza.

Shortly after midnight we jumped on a bus back to Camberwell and dropped into the Sun & Doves to finish the night off; the place was still pretty full at 1am and there was lots of good music and frivolity. I believe the expression that the young people use is that it was “off the hook”.

A couple of news items: Carmen Lindsay, founder of the Camberwell After School Project (CASP), has been awarded an MBE; and a new scheme being trialled in Camberwell will allow community organisations to tell the court what projects they think criminal offenders who have been sentenced to community service should work on.

So what do we have to look forward to in 2007? Of most interest to me is the opening of the refurbished (and renamed) Church Street Hotel and Angels & Gypsies tapas restaurant / cerveccaria. I enjoyed the food there when it was Viva Espana, and I’m curious to know if it will be as good (or better) in its new incarnation.

Then there’s the transformation of BRB/The Grove into a Young’s pub; I’d imagine that it will keep the same name. No more pizza, but a more traditional menu instead.

I’ve a feeling that the Mary Datchelor development will be given the go-ahead this year, although I’ve no idea of how long it will be until we see a final result.

I’d love it if someone would open a Japanese restaurant here, but that’s just me being selfish. Oh, and a decent butcher or delicatessen wouldn’t go amiss. And a bookshop.

January 2nd, 2007

95 Responses to “Camberwell 2007”

Christian Says (#13213):

January 2nd, 2007 at 11:20 am

A happy new year to all of you too. I promise I’ll stop lurking and air my opinions more.
Alan Dale Says (#13214):

January 2nd, 2007 at 11:29 am

The Flying Fish on Camberwell Church Street is excellent.

The owner seems to have been significantly influenced by Sea Cow (posh chippies found in Clapham and East Dulwich.)

There is a deli style counter offering a range of different fish types for frying and everything is smartly decked out and clean.

My friend’s parents are from Grimsby and consequently will not eat cod. No-one in that area eats cod as it is considered to be a dirty, bottom dwelling, wormy fish and I suppose they should know.

He said he went to the Flying Fish and specifically advance ordered Haddock. The staff were really helpful and the fish was delicious.

You’ll not get a better endorsement of a local independent business. My only concern is that is not receiving the popular support it deserves so please give it a try. I’m sure you won’t be disappointed.
Peter Says (#13216):

January 2nd, 2007 at 11:37 am

It’s been almost a year since I last went to the Flying Fish. I thought the food was very good from there, but I don’t eat fish & chips very often.
Eva Says (#13218):

January 2nd, 2007 at 11:54 am

I’ve never been either but have likewise heard glowing reports from several people. I heard that they also act as fishmonger - you can buy fresh fish direct from them. I don’t know if that’s true. If it is then people who want more independents should know and could support that way.
Rosy Says (#13220):

January 2nd, 2007 at 12:02 pm

Happy New Year, and thanks for keeping up the blog and doing a fantastic job. Thought I’d add my tuppence to the Great Debate about the Future of Camberwell and some sense, albeit temporary, of New Year enthusiasm decided I should do it now.

I’ve lived here for 7 years and have seen, even on the road I live on, subtle but remarkable changes to the character of the place and I welcome that change. I was under no illusion about colourful edgy Camberwell when I moved here, and like many of your correspondents, enjoy it for its colour and sharp edges. Nevertheless, in what appears now to be known as the Camberwell vs. East Dulwich debate, we need to welcome change and inward investment and be careful not to dig in our heels and blindly cherish all the other bullshit that is part of our lot; drugs, streetcrime, filth and gunfire. No amount of fondness for the area overcomes how I felt when visitors to my house could not get into my street because the police had roped it off - a young teenager had shot at our local officer with a homemade gun. It takes a stern resolve to love an area when the yellow police plaques lining Camberwell Road are a constant reminder of the fear and death that people have to live with.

So perhaps the answer is not to aim to be the next Clapham East (hurray!) but let’s not dismiss any progress.

I too don’t fancy meeting a fleet of wealthy mums wheeling their little Locanda’s down a parade of chi-chi(?) gift shops, but I would love if I could say it was safe enough for all mums to do that. Even after dark.

I don’t want a bland characterless urban-centre of Starbucks and Foxtons, but does every new vacant shop really need to be a late-opening off-license or a nail clinic? Where have all the butchers, bakers and tasty-stuff makers got to?

I do want - horror of horrors - more homeowners to be attracted to, and spend in, the area. A visible inward investment will bring the small businesses in tow. God forbid that the injection of a some private wealth should be seen as alarming.

I do want the Elephant torn down, the Walworth/Camberwell Road redevelopment completed and Southwark council to keep using those Polish lads who did such a good job on the footpaths round our way.

I want to keep the Sun & Doves little German sausages and jazz in the Summer, Frulli ’strawberry breakfast’ beer in the Phoenix, the excellent cycles lanes from North Camberwell to Peckham, Su-Thai, the 24-hr Turkish shop on Walworth Road, Burgess Park, Chris and Mark’s Dark Horse and the excellent grown-up pricy cocktails, the students (really), the old Georgian houses, the £10 pound-drunk taxi ride from anywhere and all the cool places a stone’s throw away in Bermondsey, Peckham, Brixton, London Bridge and Waterloo.

But I want all of this and much more. I want the default choice for a night-out for my North London friends to be Camberwell not Clerkenwell. I want Borough Market and East Street market. I want to live next to someone who doesn’t dump his mattresses/fridge/wardrobe under the railway bridge.

I’ll put a few quid up for the challenge, and will try to put a few quid into as many and as varied local businesses as I can. That’s as good as my plan gets.

Happy New Year.

R.

P.S. There was a huge queue outside the Post Office at 8.30 this morning, and none of the little old ladies had parcels…
Tola Says (#13221):

January 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 pm

And happily they do chips and gravy.
Roana Says (#13224):

January 2nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm

Nice post, Rosy — thanks! :o)

I want #sniff# Wordsworth back.
Sorry to open up an old wound/state the obvious.
eusebiovic Says (#13229):

January 2nd, 2007 at 5:39 pm

Peter - I’d love to open a Delicatesen/Bakery, it remains a long standing ambition of mine and I’d love to do it in Camberwell but unfortunately the rents are far too high at this moment in time and I may have to look East instead…West Ham probably…
lotty Says (#13231):

January 2nd, 2007 at 6:17 pm

Flying Fish is great, a really wide selection, without the prices of the aforementioned East Dulwich SeaCow. as for Angels and Gypsies does anyone know when it will open? Feliz Ano Nuevo, Bonne Annee etc
bukowski333 Says (#13232):

January 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 pm

£10 taxi ride to Camberwell? I had to abandon ship yesterday as my cab was £33 from Paddington to Victoria! Happy New Year!
Rhian Says (#13234):

January 2nd, 2007 at 7:28 pm

Hi,

Totally off subject but….. my new year’s resolution is to seriously consider getting rid of the car so I’ve been looking into alternatives and the best one I’ve found is the Streetcar car sharing scheme (http://www.streetcar.co.uk) but lo and behold they don’t have one in SE5 at all! When you look at the map there is a huge gap between East Dulwich and South Bermondsey…. typically we’ve been totally wiped off the map of London again!
I’ve asked them if they’ve got any plans to put one in the area (being self interested I’ve asked for the Camberwell Grove area!) but I just wondered if anyone else would be interested in such a scheme and if so would anyone want to email them and support my assertion that it would be well used!

I’ll try and post this on the SE5 forum too.

Thanks!

Rhian
Regeneguru Says (#13235):

January 2nd, 2007 at 7:52 pm

Eusebiovic - the rents are not that high outside Camberwell Green, where they are truly ridiculous. I have a couple of ideas if you are set up and ready to go. One of the advantages of Camberwell is that it is not Philadelphia; citizens are sprightly and will walk 10 minutes for quality.

There is also a reasonably local deli whose owner is emigrating who will sell or rent his leasehold interest. Send me a message at the Forum if you want to know more.

Whoever does open a quality deli/bakery/cafe here will make a killing, particularly if Southwark finally sorts out its parking priorities and stops discriminating against local businesses.
Lucas Says (#13237):

January 2nd, 2007 at 9:28 pm

Rhian - I too have been thinking of getting rid of my car and coincidently have requested http://www.citycarclub.co.uk put a car in Camberwell (New Road).
Richie Says (#13246):

January 3rd, 2007 at 8:29 am

I would walk 15 minutes for a good deli, no problem. Beats cycling to a deli, which is what I have to do at the moment. But the key to a good deli is the right products at the right prices - the East Dulwich Deli is great but I find a tad overpriced - is this reflective of the rents paid or the local clientele?
Regeneguru Says (#13248):

January 3rd, 2007 at 8:57 am

Richie - Lordship Lane has a comparatively recent reputation as a quality shopping destination, which enables it to charge higher prices. It is helped by the abundance of free visitor parking in side streets. This, together with affluent residents (we actually have more here, though), enables a quality business to thrive.

Here in Camberwell we are beset with resident permit CPZs with only a few pay spaces - hardly calculated to attract custom. This is our main problem, and it’s what is killing off Walworth Road/Camberwell Road right now. At the Forum, we are in discussions with Southwark. If you feel strongly, contact Tim Walker of Southwark Parking.

I think that particular Deli’s prices are too high - why don’t you try the one on the corner of Brixton Road and Prima Road near Oval? He has fresh vegetables artichokes & sun dried tomatoes, fresh anchovies, ciabatta, an incredible selection of quality pasta and sauces, and incredible fennel or chive sausages.
Peter Says (#13249):

January 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 am

An Italian friend of mine swears by that place; it’s just a little too far off the beaten track for me, however.
Dickdotcom Says (#13252):

January 3rd, 2007 at 9:51 am

I’ll second or third any votes for flying fish - it’s excellent.
I’d love a decent butcher in Camberwell - and if the queues outside the one on East Dulwich (40 mins) just before Christmas are anything to go by, then I’m sure the rules of supply and demand would support one.
copeywolf Says (#13253):

January 3rd, 2007 at 9:52 am

Happy New Year everyone.

Me and my girlfriend (a Camberwell Taffy and Camberwell Kiwi) are hoping to put our money where our mouths are and move from the world’s smallest flat to the world’s smallest house in the near future. Both are in Camberwell, and after 5 years here I’m going to stick around and do my bit. This is largely due to the creation of the Forum and the critical mass of people who care about SE5 - I can’t bear the thought of missing Camberwell finally coming good!

The seemingly abandoned properties at the bottom of Grove Lane (between the Dark Horse and Seymour’s) would be good for a deli…
copeywolf Says (#13254):

January 3rd, 2007 at 10:01 am

P.S. I too rate the Flying Fish, and appreciate the effort they’ve made. Did have my doubts at the beginning when they spelt “scallops” wrongly in the window, but my doubts proved unfounded. Just wish their chips were a wee bit fatter
David Says (#13255):

January 3rd, 2007 at 10:20 am

Regeneguru, a couple of questions. When you say you are ‘in discussions with the Council’, do you mean serious negotiations or have you as an individual, like a lot of people, just spoken to Tim about the issue of CPZ’s? If the Forum is now in full-scale discussions, what do you stand for? I’ve yet to read what your views are on things like this. I think it unfair to start making claims that are supported by the SE5 Forum when the majority of us who have signed our names when attending sessions don’t really have a clue as to the Forum’s aims.

To be frank, all I see is the Forum has been going a while now and has done a lot of talking and gotten some money but has yet to really do anything to change Camberwell. You made one failed deputation on one property, which I still don’t know why it was such a priority. And I’m not sure your deputation represents my views because there is no fundamental statement of what signing up to the Forum means I’m signing up to.

Perhaps this is a better discussion to continue on the Forum website.
Lulu Says (#13256):

January 3rd, 2007 at 10:22 am

I had a really bad fish and chips at the Flying Fish and was put off going there afterwards – the fish was overcooked and disintergrated on my plate into tiny flavourless flakes. But after reading everyone’s glowing reviews, I am willing to forgive them and give it another try.

There is a very good fish and chips in Herne Hill called Olleys, if any one is ever over that way. It’s just opposite Brockwell Park.
Richie Says (#13258):

January 3rd, 2007 at 11:22 am

Thanks for the advice regeneguru, I’ll give that one a shot.

There was a consultative paper put through my door a while back to make my road (Dagmar Road) a CPZ. However, this was after a lot of pressure on thecouncil from the residents association. Residents were fed up with commuters parking on the road, making it difficult for them to find a space for themselves. I attended the residents association meeting where there were a lot of angry people,but I voted against a CPZ, as I am not a car owner, but from time to time hire or borrow a car and CPZs make it a living nightmare to park even outside your own home.

I wonder how many of Camberwell’s CPZs are down to resident pressure or whether councils like putting them in in order to raise revenue.
Regeneguru Says (#13259):

January 3rd, 2007 at 11:54 am

David - you raise valid points.

The SE5 Forum website is due to be updated with the Forum’s aims, which were finalised in early December following the General Meeting.

I have personally been in correspondence with Southwark Regeneration and Parking, and we will be meeting in February to discuss what is possible. It is important to know this before making unrealistic demands.

I believe that by that time the Forum Website will have a section for voting on local issues, which is a way we could consult on the extent to which residents are willing to abandon their cars to attract outside custom.

The deputation on Crawford Road was an unequivocal failure, you are correct in my view. It did however raise the profile of the Forum, and identify two significant issues; SE5’s proportion of the Southwark Capital Fund, and the halving of retail space in SE5 since 1996.

I can’t comment on the public money situation on behalf of the Forum except to say that I have not received any, and will not accept any.

Richie - the solution to commuter parking is free short stay parking, through a CPZ, 20 minutes to 2 hours as appropriate to the area. Ironically, this could raise more revenue through penalties than pay parking.
Louie Says (#13263):

January 3rd, 2007 at 4:56 pm

I’d be an absolutely massive fan of a good deli somewhere round the Green. I love the one up at Oval, but I don’t have a car and live near the Arts College so it’s a bit of a traipse.

I shall have to try Mr Sparkes, although a good fishmonger in Camberwell or E Dulwich (like the one in Nunhead) would be a big bonus too.
Dagmar Says (#13267):

January 3rd, 2007 at 5:28 pm

The Dagmar family have just got back from their native Cornwall. Camberwell looks a bit grim and grey at night in January.

Who was it who described Camberwell as “crunchy”? A sort of cross between edgy, funky and crappy.

What lets it down are the schools. There’s one good primary, as far as I can see, unless you want your kid dumbed down to drooling status.

East Dulwich lacks the bite, crunch and edge of Camberwell but all the schools, even Goose Green, are good, nice and mixed, rainbowy, all that.

There is no more boring topic, until the condom tears, a new life appears in King’s, and the provincial parents remember their own good-enough schooling far from London.
Dagmar Says (#13268):

January 3rd, 2007 at 6:02 pm

Yes, Dagmar, Camberwell is blessed with hospitals. My two daughters were excellentlily delivered in King’s and I myself have a letter from a Camberwell Green GP Practice doctor referring me to the Maudsley Emergency Clinic for treatment for severe paranoia following an accidental overdose of speed several years ago. I didn’t attend. In fact I think that letter is in a book which I have lent to my elderly mother or some impressionable teenage child of one of my friends.

I am concerned about Henry. Christmas is always a difficult time for such highly strung blue-bloods.
Mark Says (#13349):

January 5th, 2007 at 2:33 pm

For what it’s worth the three or so boarded up shops at the bottom of Grove Lane are owned by Southwark but on lease to someone who has not done anything with them.

*sigh*
Regeneguru Says (#13351):

January 5th, 2007 at 3:13 pm

There is perhaps a case for compulsory purchase of the leases by Southwark in the public interest, at the market rate for boarded up shops whose goodwill has dissipated.
Dagmar Says (#13397):

January 6th, 2007 at 11:33 am

Lorn Mayers, black 6′3″ best British player in American football, shot on New Year’s Eve in the Elbow Room Club, Islington, still critical. His name into BBC website search finds the story. Big bloke, small club.

My trip to Peckham yesterday was a huge success even though half the trip was missing. Peckham Library had a 10p book sale in the foyer. That library and its concourse could be in Europe. The Scope charity shop had some art books withdrawn from Central St Martin’s library. I bought one for 50p, Basil Alkazzi, brilliant.

Felt so happy, went 30p over budget at Lidl:

1kg small spuds 79p
1 litre foam bath 48p
1 bottle red Bordeaux £2.64
Camembert “Silver Oak” 69p
Sardines in olive oil 49p
Baked Beans 18p
Carrier bag 3p

TOTAL £5.30

The little spuds are “Annabelle” and grown in the UK. The “Sunny Glade” brand baked beans are not brilliant, but very beany therefore fine with dash of Lea & Perrins. They are “made in the EU” for the German Lidl. They don’t say “German Baked Beans”, I suspect, because no-one over 50 in the UK would buy ‘em. The Bordeaux is not bulked up with rough Cabernet Franc, just has Cab & Merlot and at 12.5% is excellent value. The Camembert is good, 45% “matiere grasse” - fatty matter.

Lidl UK GmBH has two addresses: 19 Worple Road SW19 and Crabtree Manorway North, Belvedere, Kent. Sinister.

Anyway, the Dagmar family could eat and drink once more. Woman to man in Lidl: “Of course they do, they sell brown bread in Lagos now, it’s better for you.”

Ran out of time to repeat visit to SLG to see video art and go to Hermits Cave for 6.15pm pint, but bathed baby drinking £2.64 Bordeaux.

Many real butchers in Peckham, amazing range of meat, no queue of metrosexuals outside like in East Dullwich. Peckham town centre is great these days, much better feel than Camberwell.
Nick woodford Says (#13400):

January 6th, 2007 at 2:05 pm

I was thinking that once the Mary Datchelor has been re-developed, the old estate agents now ‘youth workers?’ on the corner of Camberwell Church St & the Grove would make an excellent spot for a deli.. Change the ugly ‘cube bar’ opposite to a buzzy, independent, arty cafe and the area really will be improving.
NickW Says (#13401):

January 6th, 2007 at 2:08 pm

Ps does anyone know someone or shop who will make and fit a new wood sash window in the area?
Carole Says (#13405):

January 6th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

I’d like to put in a word for Paul’s (aka The Olive Shop) in Church Street. Their dips are delicious - fresh, authentic and - if I’m not mistaken - made on the premises. Try the taramosalata …
Dagmar Says (#13406):

January 6th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

Try Nick Edwards in Vanguard Court. He is primarily a framer, but he can sort you out. He is framer to top galleries and corporations, first-rate work, decent price. Nearby on Shenley Road there is pink blossom growing on a tree, amazing for the first week of January.

From the Library you can see a big bright sign in the dark for PECKHAM SPA. This should be SPARES

The Lidl in Peckham is like the Feeding of the Five Thousand in the Bible, or the Tardis in Doctor Who. I went there today to really splash out and still it was just over a fiver:

Plum tomatoes 13p (chopped are 15p)
Butterbeans (”Fagioli”) 29p
Golden Syrup (big 907g tin) £1.13
Tomato puree x 2, 50p
Jalfrezi sauce 69p
Cotes du Rhone £2.79
Carrier bag 3p

TOTAL: £5.56

Watched the video in the SLG all the way through. Bit pretentious at the end, but that’s to the good, edgy, crunchy.

The Spar at the petrol station had ingots of Xmas-themed Yorkie, 300g for £1, down from £2.49, so I bought the lot, 6 ingots, because I’ve packed in smoking and taken up obsessive compulsive disorder instead. OCD, to be precise.
Dagmar Says (#13408):

January 6th, 2007 at 5:01 pm

The Peckham Lidl drink department contains many mysteries. There is a whisky called “Queen Margot”. Has anyone heard of a Scottish Queen Margot?

The £2.64 Bordeaux is “Mis en bouteille dans nos chais”, blended in our wine storehouses, but the cork is a solid cork, not compressed cork chips, which is class.

The Degustation (tasting) notes on the Cotes du Rhones are almost too small to read, but they say that “Red fruit can be smelled through its fairly intense nose.” The grape varieties used are Syrah, Grenache, Cinsault, Carignan and Mourvedre i.e. all the rough grape varieties of the south, every single one of them, so is full of anti-oxidants, “thee wine will prevent you from rusting”. It ought to be made available on drip at King’s.
Eva Says (#13409):

January 6th, 2007 at 5:19 pm

Carole: I’m also a massive fan of the Olive Shop. They have great quality feta by weight and fantastic bergamot Loukoumia (Turkish Delight) - sweet but not too much so, which is rare (Aphrodite brand - nice box too).

Dagmar: Good tip about the Lidl, I didn’t realise there was one so close and I’ve almost run out of coffee. I’m also seeing quite a few freaked out trees bearing blossom on my cycles to town, and all the bulbs are advancing speedily with their sprouty bits. I’m just waiting for the suddent cold snap…
squidder Says (#13411):

January 6th, 2007 at 6:10 pm

I too love the Peckham Lidl. Over summer i was really skint, and managed to feed myself for a whole week on a tenner from lidl. they do a great german lager for 50p a can as well, sorry can’t remember the name of it at the moment!

i haven’t seen the video at the SLG, but mrs squidder works there and she says its been a hit with young and old - even our friend’s 18 month son loved it!

well done for packing in smoking Dagmar, it does get easier believe me!
Dagmar Says (#13412):

January 6th, 2007 at 6:15 pm

The coffee in the big Somerfield with the car park is good, Eva. Unusual continental brands, you get there, with interesting shaped jars and lids.

Lidl has things like shrink-wrapped venison. Today I saw some “Precooked Irish Crab” which is presumably the result of Sellafield boiling the arachnids in its radioactive effluent.

That bike shop on the way to Peckham is easily the best in London.

I’m more & more intrigued by Peckham Lodge, the budget hostel-hotel, once the HQ of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers, a grand building truly, on the way to Lidl.
Eva Says (#13413):

January 6th, 2007 at 7:14 pm

3 years ago Lidl on Acre Lane used to have good coffee, the 99p shop has Douhle Egberts (however you spell it) for a few days per week until it runs out. The only trouble with Lidl stores is that as soon as you become hooked to a particular obscure brand they stop stocking it.
Dagmar Says (#13435):

January 7th, 2007 at 10:36 am

Thanks for the tip-off about the Douwe Egberts. I will camp outside the 99p Stores (as they are called, slogan: “Quality products for less than a pound!”) and be first in with my elbows amongst the bustling, wide-hipped ladies who fill the aisles.

I wish they did wine for less than a pound. The Lidl Bordeaux is worth about 13p and only good for cooking. I had forgotten how thin and acidic it is. The label has a nice old print of ships docked on the Gironde and is overlaid with gold filigree. The bottle itself is embossed with an emblem that looks like the Bristol Rovers crest. But the wine goes through you like a surgeon’s scalpel, shining bright red and sharp as you like.

I wonder if Aldi on the Old Kent Road can undercut it in price and quality. I will cycle over and have a look. I am sent for printer ink anyway for baby pictures to send as thank you cards for Xmas rubbish. But if the trip can also produce a successful bathtime red, it will not have been in vain.
lucas Says (#13436):

January 7th, 2007 at 10:37 am

A bit out of the way, but the Aldi on the Old Kent Road beats lidl hands down. Same prices as lidl but always empty and clean. All the packaging is made for the british market and they have a great selection of wines and ales.
Mushtimushta Says (#13438):

January 7th, 2007 at 10:51 am

I’m intrigued by Peckham Lodge too, Dagmar. If you turn into Lyndhurst Road, there are some really strange-looking flatlets attached to Peckham Lodge. They look minute, but there are always streams of people entering/exiting whenever I pass.

On the subject of the bold and the beautiful (in architecture), there are two other little gems in the area. Continue up Lyndhurst Rd for 300 yards to Lyndhurst Square. It looks as though it was originally built with three sides (which doesn’t quite make it a square, but who am I to pick holes). One side appears to have gone (the Secod World War, perhaps?) and one block of the Pelican Estate now inhabits the third side. A more unsypathetic re-build is hard to imagine. The remaining houses on the Square are beautiful, with ornate lintels. It’s worth a look. I have this fantasy that one day, I’ll be rich enough to live in that square, but fear that this will remain a fantasy. It’s not helped by the fact that the present residents never seem to sell - I haven’t seen a “For Sale” sign in that square for yonks.

The second are “The Maisonettes” in Vestry Road, which runs alongside Lucas Gardens near the Town Hall. They have beautiful full-length concave windows. I think they are owned by Southwark, but might be wrong.

Where’s Lord Henry, by the way?
Eva Says (#13441):

January 7th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

Slightly different thread: does anyone know of a good pub in Camberwell that isn’t too smokey and has non-alcoholic beer? I have a friend who is pregnant and I don’t know where to take her when she visits. On Christmas Eve we were looking for a place and ended up going home for some disgusting Kaliber. I was impressed that the Wetherspoons in Surrey Quays do a non-alcholic Becks(!). I may well be looking up the nearest Wetherspoon for her next visit.
locallocal Says (#13446):

January 7th, 2007 at 3:41 pm

The Maisonettes are privately owned - or at least one of them is, unless the residents are doing a bit of illegal subletting…

on a different tack: why is there a mobile police station parked outside the silver buckle when there’s a perfectly good police station - although not technnically functioning in its full capacity, I know - around the corner?

Happy New Year to all
locallocal Says (#13447):

January 7th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

RE TREES IN BLOSSOM
don’t be too freaked out - there are several species of winter-flowering cherry. I was freaked out too until my greenfingered Pa set me straight
bukowski333 Says (#13450):

January 7th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

I would like to sing the praises of Rat Records for very good cheap music. A real gem in Camberwell.
Mushtimushta Says (#13452):

January 7th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

I like Rat Records too - my only reservation being that I once went in there on my way home from work in a suit/shirt/tie and the person that served me treated me like a piece of s**t on his shoe. I now dress down before crossing the threshold.
Dagmar Says (#13453):

January 7th, 2007 at 5:59 pm

A man gave me his trousers! He gave me his trousers! This was on the way to the Aldi on the Old Kent Road. It’s a long story. You’re right, Lucas, the Aldi is a lot better than Lidl. Their “Corale” brand baked beans (18p) are in an intriguingly bright orange sauce. They are crunchy beans, really quite hard, and are listed in the contents as “navy beans” which is very queer.

But yes, Lucas, the Alcoholic Department is brilliant. Anything that doesn’t have its own brand is called “Oscar’s”. There is a 5.4% abv drink called “Oscar’s Summer Blush Spritz: a sparking blend of crisp wine, raspberry, blueberry and orange flavours.” That’s nicely labelled, nicely described, but they don’t say what flavour crips the wine is. Crisp wine! Still, at £1.29 for half a litre you can’t complain.

Anyway, my beat-that-Lidl wine is a crazy screwtop called “Escape Hills”. Escape Hills! The Degustation notes begin, “Escape with this warm mediterranean red…” Escape! You can’t say that! It’s totally illegal under the drinks marketing codes!

Also, it’s made from Grenache/Merlot. Are you kidding! That’s like making a wine from the blood of Chris Eubank and whatisname - my mind is going… The Dark Destroyer. They’d call the wine The Dark Destroyer. Instead of having that line on the back label, “Drink responsibly,” it’d read “Die responsibly.”

The “Escape” at 13% abv is now taking over… I must bath the baby. Oh gawd, there’ll be “Where’s the baby?” “I dunno.” Maybe even:

- Where’s the baby?
- What baby?

There is pink blossom in Burgess Park. There is pink blossom in Lucas Gardens. Your dad may be right, locallocal, but I’m beginning to see pink blossom everywhere.

More later about the trousers.
Mushtimushta Says (#13454):

January 7th, 2007 at 6:04 pm

@ Eva - The Kentish Drovers on Peckham High Street is a Wetherspoons pub, so obviously has a no-smoking area. I don’t know if they sell non-alcoholic beer, but you imply in your earlier posting that this is a Wetherspoons policy.
It’s fairly big inside. I think the building used to be a Bank, so it has very high ceilings even in the smoking area, so it doesn’t get oppressively smokey, though I smoke, so take that as you find it.
The downside with all Wetherspoons pubs is that almost all have a small aged alcoholic contingent!
There’s also The Fox on The Hill at the top of Denmark Hill - that’s a Wetherspoons as well.
Good luck.
Eva Says (#13456):

January 7th, 2007 at 6:25 pm

Thanks Mushtimushta, I never thought I’d be glad to know where my local Wetherspoons is but there you go. A funny part of our Christmas Eve story is that when one of our number went into the Funky Monkey to find out whether they had any non-alcoholic beers the woman at the bar told him that her pregnant friend was told by her doctor that she should be fine if she continued drinking but just cut down to a couple of glasses of wine. She then added that her friend was French so maybe we should take this with a pinch of salt.
Dagmar Says (#13457):

January 7th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

So the baby washed away I think, dunno…

maybe see it in a bottle at the Cuming Museum

Aldi queue, right?

This natty dread says, I was in front of you.

I packed in smoking so at the mo I am often short with people

even tho he’s twice my size

i say

tell you what mate - you weren’t in fro9nt of me

- but

get in front of me

get in front of me

ok he says, but you dont have much, trying to wriggle out

no

i say

get in front of me

get

in

front

of

me

this in stark contrast to the man who was so nice HE GAVE ME HIS TROUSERS
Eva Says (#13458):

January 7th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

Was he starkers from waist down when he gave them to you? It sounds scary.
Mumu Says (#13459):

January 7th, 2007 at 7:04 pm

Let us not forget our own mighty Wetherspoons - the Fox on the Hill (149 Denmark Hill,SE5) which on the two or three occasions I have been in there I found not to be too bad.

In a previous job I was responsible for collating and analysing research into all aspects of alcohol from around the world. My understanding of the research was that pregnant women could drink 1-2 units (1 unit =half pint of beer or small glass of wine) once or twice a week with no effect and even at the government’s recommended limits for women’s drinking of 14 units a week there is still little chance of impact on the mother or foetus. It is only at the 30+ units a week level that there was a possibility of affecting the unborn child. Ultimately though whatever the research shows it is down to the potential mother’s opinion about whether she wishes to drink.
lucas Says (#13460):

January 7th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

Dagmar - after years of going to the ’secret Aldi’ not once have I been offered a free pair of trousers, you lucky person!
squidder Says (#13462):

January 7th, 2007 at 9:42 pm

RAT records IS dead good. they know what treasures they hold tho’ i once saw an old Damned LP in there for £20!

As for Wetherspoons pubs, although i’ll occasionally go to the Fox On The Hill for a cheap beer, i’m generally put off by their policy of giving a percentage of their profits to the very, very nasty (although piss funny) United Kingdom Independence Party. Yeah, Kilroy-Silk’s lot!
Christian Says (#13475):

January 8th, 2007 at 7:31 am

My local deli is the Olive Shop, too. I trust their stuff, and their recommendations if I’m not feeling very inventive recipe-wise. It took me a couple of years but now I even understand what Mr Olive is saying!
Christian Says (#13476):

January 8th, 2007 at 7:33 am

Lidl is good especially for Cien brand toilet paper that’s from recycled paper and doesn’t dissolve into little knots and flakes. Has anyone tried it? I never got used to English-style loo roll, with or without puppies on it.
Eva Says (#13477):

January 8th, 2007 at 7:50 am

Never knowingly tried Cien - will look out for it.

Good small shops-wise: I’m glad we have Sugar Mama, roughly opposite Nandos. I bought a lot of my Christmas presents there for female friends and realtives. They have nice things (mainly jewelry and ladies clothes) at a fair range of prices, are very helpful and wrapped everything up nicely in tissue paper. Useful to have an emergency present shop in the locale, and not a city mum in sight.
Christian Says (#13479):

January 8th, 2007 at 8:02 am

Who of you lives in that town house halfway up Camberwell Grove that has a huge chandelier in its first floor hall? It is lined with red wallpaper and life-size copies of two of my favourite ever paintings on its walls: Caravaggio’s Doubting Thomas and Supper at Emmaus?

The original of the first hangs in Potsdam’s Sans Souci, the second here in the National Gallery.

It was all lit up as if for a ball when we walked past last night. The most amazing thing to stumble across.
Ade Says (#13483):

January 8th, 2007 at 8:54 am

Happy New Year, SE5ers…

Maybe, just maybe, I’ll actually, really, physically move back to Camberwell in 2007. I’ve been hanging on since August for someone else’s solicitor to pull their finger out. There’s only so much longer I can continue waiting outside McDonalds for the nightbus home. Must… Escape… Clapham…

But damn, I’ll miss those BRB pizzas. They’re the best thing about BRB, IMO. And yes, a Japanese restuarant would be most welcome.
Lulu Says (#13487):

January 8th, 2007 at 10:20 am

Yes, I love the BRB pizza with pepperoni and fresh green chillies – I am addicted to fresh chillies. I just can’t get enough of them.
Heard a rumour that the new owners of the Castle used to run a Beefeater. Explains a lot.
Mumu Says (#13494):

January 8th, 2007 at 2:27 pm

I have always found the pizzas in Mozzarella e Pomodoro to be excellent so I would recommend going there for pizza once BRB has shut (obviously I realise that the ambience is a bit different it being a restaurant rather than a pub and all that)
Dickdotcom Says (#13497):

January 8th, 2007 at 3:00 pm

Dagmar,

do you have any contact details for Nick Edwards - I also need a window rebuilding.

Glad to hear about winter-flowering cherries - there’s one in full bloom in Denman road which has been freaking me out till now!
Mumu Says (#13499):

January 8th, 2007 at 3:14 pm

On the shop front of course you cant beat Crusons for fruit and vegetables, so much better than Somerfield
eusebiovic Says (#13500):

January 8th, 2007 at 3:26 pm

Yeah Cruson always manage to get their hands on some nice juicy Lemons - I got some today…Although the last time I went there I got some Limes and they were a bit dry - I told him and he put a couple in with the lemons for nothing!!! - You don’t get such kind gestures in a faceless supermarket…
Dagmar Says (#13501):

January 8th, 2007 at 3:35 pm

Dickdotcom, Nick Edwards is in Vanguard Court but I’m trying to get hold of hold number or email for you.
Eva Says (#13504):

January 8th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

I buy a lot of plants at Crusons. My gardenia from there is now huge and having flowers.
copeywolf Says (#13508):

January 8th, 2007 at 4:34 pm

Guess what…I need a window too! Where’s Vanguard Court, Dagmar?
Promise to wait my turn when we track him down
gabster Says (#13511):

January 8th, 2007 at 4:56 pm

We buy a lot of food from the Chinese Supermarket. It’s more expensive then the stores in China town, but it’s local. They have a great selection of fresh vegetables, herbs and spices.

reagrding Somerfield, it is terrible, can’t we petition for another supermarket to take over at least one of the stores? -Why do we need two Somerfields in Camberwell?
Oliver Says (#13512):

January 8th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

As others have said; it comes down to demographics. As there is a large Sainsbury’s on Dog Kennel Hill there is no market for anything other than a “budget” supermarket in Camberwell.

Unfortunately the sad fact of the market is that if you can’t afford to get to the Sainsbury’s you’re not going to spend enough money to support a quality supermarket.
Dagmar Says (#13517):

January 8th, 2007 at 6:22 pm

Sash Window News. Vanguard Court is just past the registry office on the Peckham Road - a cobbled street leads to it. Half the artisans in Camberwell work there. Bruce, the car mechanic there, is the best in the world - he is an artiste, too, he knows ze soul of a car.

My emails has been blocked by my brother sending mobile phone photographs of a soccer match, so I will get Nick’s details when the email is unblocked. In the meantime, Vanguard Court is where Nick is.
The Eyechild Says (#13547):

January 9th, 2007 at 8:35 am

The Chinese supermarket is good for fish, and generally pretty fresh – though they will ocasionally try and sell you the scrag-end if that’s all they’ve got left.

Somerfield is rubbish. Any time they sell something I like they generally end up discontinuing it, and they’re not even very cheap
southmark Says (#13549):

January 9th, 2007 at 8:39 am

I don’t know if anyone remembers, but a couple of years ago when Morrisons purchased Somerfield, there was talk of Morrisons being taken to the monopolies board (can’t remember the correct terminology). They then sold them back to Somerfield. Surely, if we as the local community made a fuss about our lack of local shopping choice, could we not get one to close, and have it replaced with a mini Tesco or some such? They are so expensive! It’s cheaper to buy loo roll in my local paper shop, and the marmalade I like is 60p dearer than Waitrose!
copeywolf Says (#13550):

January 9th, 2007 at 8:55 am

Cheers for the info Dagmar. It sounds nice down there. I’ll take a wander.

The Eyechild and southmark are right - our Somerfield isn’t just crap, it’s expensive too. Catering for the lower earners, pah! Maybe we should suggest a new “brand” for them. East Dulwich has “Somerfield Market Fresh” ours could be “Somerfield Landfill”.
Regeneguru Says (#13551):

January 9th, 2007 at 9:24 am

I think this psychological need for visiting a supermarket each weekend in some way supplants the old community instinct to go to Church.

Privychka, nam svyshe dana
zamena schast’iu ona

(Habit, given to us from above, is a substitute for happiness) - Pushkin.

Can’t see a rational reason for it, with the abundance of better quality and cheaper goods available at local independent shops.
Mumu Says (#13553):

January 9th, 2007 at 9:47 am

According to the Somerfield website “You might have noticed a few changes to your local Somerfield - and if not, you will soon. We’ll be making changes to many of our stores over the coming months, adding products that are right for customers in each locality and installing new signage to make it easier to find the products you want. There will be a better layout and a wider choice - with hundreds of new lines.”

I have emailed Somerfield to ask when the Butterfly Walk shop will be undergoing these changes. I will keep you posted…

The Somerfield near where I work on Edgware Road (another former safeways) underwent the changes about a year ago and it did lead to an improvement in the shop
Mumu Says (#13557):

January 9th, 2007 at 11:31 am

One thing that impacts on Somerfield is the fact that Butterfly Walk closes at 8 each night and there is no other entrance to the shop - most of the other supermarkets around (well Denmark Hill and Vauxhall Sainsburys and Kennington and Brixton Tesco that I know of) shut at 10 instead so maybe the site is not desirable for other supermarket chains?
Oliver Says (#13559):

January 9th, 2007 at 12:01 pm

Southmark, I think you may be refering to Safeway which Morrisons bought. Tesco or any other business will not open a store because you ask them, they will do it for profit. With a massive Sainsbury’s dominating the local market why would tesco et al open up?

Those of you who use the Somerfield should ask yourselves how much you spend there a week. Does your expenditure (as an average) justify the costs of opening the store (including all set-up costs: esate agents fees, legal fees, shop fitting, technology, supply chain re-distribution, staff training etc) and maintaining it to the same standard as the Sainsbury’s?
Dagmar Says (#13570):

January 9th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

“The essence of being is never conclusively sayable,” said Heidegger. Puskin was right about habit, Regeneru, and you are right I’m sure about today’s supermarket worship of bounty and fruitfulness.

In the same place on Cobourg Street where the man gave me his trousers, I found a paperback book, “Heidegger: A Beginner’s Guide.

North Camberwell is fascinating. The houses are modest, but the space of Burgess Park is really something. I was intrigued by the St Marks Little Army 1914-1918 memorial on the side of the church buliding - the church has been a mosque since 1980.
Mumu Says (#13659):

January 11th, 2007 at 9:12 am

Well Somerfield have got back to me answering my query - see 75 above. Their reply is

Thank you for your recent enquiry, which we have passed to the relevant department for their attention and consideration.

Unfortunately, at this moment in time, our Camberwell store is not scheduled for a refit.

Yours sincerely

Nick Derbyshire
Customer Service Administrator

So it looks like things arent going to improve in the near future
eusebiovic Says (#13683):

January 11th, 2007 at 6:32 pm

What I bought before Christmas in Somerfield Denmark Hill:

Tropicana Orange Juice
Copella Apple Juice
Yogurts x 4
French Stick
Olive Oil
Salmon Fillets

Total £14.91

What I bought in Marks and Spencer Walworth Road this week

Orange Juice
Pineapple Juice
Chipolatas
Humous
Ciabatta x 2
Sun Dried Tomatoes
Chicken Breast Fillets

Total £15.17

Both lists are more or less identical and M&S were only 26p more expensive - So in what way is Somerfield catering for a poorer demographic/ person - I can’t really see that they are making much of an effort with their prices for anybody and what they offer is of a far inferior quality…
Eva Says (#13687):

January 11th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

Isn’t that the point. Poor people always get ripped off.
eusebiovic Says (#13688):

January 11th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

Eva - You are most correct
Eleanor Says (#13695):

January 11th, 2007 at 11:01 pm

And we poor people have our environment polluted for our own good! I have only recently started to take the bus down the Walworth Road again after a few months of exile in SE14 and was shocked to have my top-deck daydreams and views of Burgess Park winter trees interrupted by scarlet and green vinyl banners hung from the lamposts reading “I’m ready and willing; make me dirty’ and ‘Keep filling me; I can’t get enough”. These purport to come from the Keep Britain Tidy group. I thought it was basically a socially conservative group - but here it is imposing visual clutter on an already crowded streetscape and sexual innuendo on an already porn-punned out culture. Southwark Council must have colluded with KBT. And will they be lining Green Park or Hyde Park with this marketingmantrash? Hey! great adverts! I’ll throw my rubbish in the bin because it’s… like… the sexy thing to do. Does anyone have any inside info on these banners?
eusebiovic Says (#13709):

January 12th, 2007 at 8:33 am

Eleanor - I found those banner really loathsome too…No doubt another idea thought up by people with a degree but the social skills of a mosquito…
locallocal Says (#13718):

January 12th, 2007 at 10:08 am

Peckham Lodge is still a hotel. It’s also used for patients with mental health issues who also have accomodation problems. and is used by Southwark Council as B&B for their clients with accom problems. It used to be the HQ of the EETPU electrical workers union
Hannah M Says (#13723):

January 12th, 2007 at 1:51 pm

I don’t really like those banners on the Walworth Road either but seeing as dropping litter is one of my persistent bug bears about London - i honestly don’t understadn why people think this is an acceptable way to behave i’m prepared to tolerate them.

Keep Britian Tidy is a campaign not a group. It is run by a Charity called Encams who as far as i know are a perfectly respectable environmental charity with no social agenda beyond encouraging people not be such grubby little oiks and use litter bins. They do a lot of work with Local and National government on clean up campaigns and education etc.. As i said ss far as i know their only agenda is to get people to use litter bins, not dump rubbish etc… but i could be wrong!

Also you are right you wouldn’t probably see banners like this lining Hyde or Green park - firstly cos Royal Parks wouldn’t let you get away with it and secondly i assume Hyde park probably doesn’t have the same persistent litter and rubbish dumping problems that the Walworth oad and most of Southwark suffers from.
Eva Says (#13724):

January 12th, 2007 at 2:22 pm

It reminds me of my Physics teacher who though that constantly referencing sex would make us perk up and listen to his lectures. It didn’t work, if anything it backfired - confirmed him as a nerd lacking credibility.
Regeneguru Says (#13728):

January 12th, 2007 at 2:57 pm

Re sign - agree with above comments. Obviously those banners are another uglification of our streetscape, although thankfully not permanent, unlike the silver spiked “Welcome” signs from Southwark.

This tends to happen to places designated from on high as “transit communities” in low income areas.

A simple logo of someone putting rubbish in a green bin should be enough, and would achieve bigger impact on the entrance doors of buses.
The Eyechild Says (#13734):

January 12th, 2007 at 5:06 pm

I am in agreement re the creative on the banner, but I suppose whoever dreamed up the copy would probably argue:

“Well at least it’s got you talking”

No publicity being bad publicity etc.

It is slightly annoying that it’s on vinyl banners that are there for an indefinite period, rather than ads that have a specific duration
amy Says (#15343):

February 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pm

I’m australian and moved to Camberwell 9 months ago. Having lived in Camberwell in Melbourne, Australia it would be a great idea to rekindle the link between the two suburbs. Patricularly seeing as Camberwell in Melbourne are rich as hell.
copeywolf Says (#15345):

February 5th, 2007 at 4:24 pm

Not sure that would be a good idea. According to http://www.whatsincamberwell.com/index.php there are more Medical Practitioners than anything else in Cabberwell,VIC. Clearly the place is full of ill people or hypercondriacs!
Pinktrees Says (#16939):

February 23rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm

Hi all. Can any of you good people recommend a mother and baby group in Camberwell?
ben patio Says (#16992):

February 24th, 2007 at 7:50 am

Mrs Patio takes the nippers to a variety of places. Most frequently the one at the Sally Army place on Lomond Grove / Elmington Rd, Tues Wed and Thurs mornings (”not too heavy on the religion”). Then there’s Little Fishes at the church on Camberwell Grove, which as the name might suggest is “a bit more churchy” - Wednesday mornings. Also there’s one at the United Reform church at the top of Denmark Hill by Red Post Hill - “a bit unfriendly but good activities”, Wed morning. Outside Camberwell, the one at St Faith’s at the bottom of Red Post Hill, Monday mornings, is “well structured”. Apparently you can just turn up to any of them and there’ll usually be space.
Marcus Says (#83476):

October 23rd, 2008 at 11:54 am

Rubbish!

Coppela Apple Juice:
Tesco > £1.81 / bottle TBC
ASDA = £1.81 / bottle
Lidl = £1.74 / bottle (2 for £1.50)
Aldi < £1.74 / bottle TBC

You need to compare like for like!
M&S rip you off by charging you for their marketing…
Marcus Says (#83477):

October 23rd, 2008 at 11:57 am

How can you say ‘more or less identical’?????

The list are very different.

Generally, Olive oil is a very expensive product.

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Camberwell 2007

Published by Peter | Filed under Development, Eating & Drinking, Events, General

95 Responses to “Camberwell 2007”

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