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Camberwell and my life in it
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Welcome to the Camberwell Online blog, a place for free and spirited exchange on anything with even a tangential connection to the South-East London district.
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Published by Peter | Filed under General
Something happened over the weekend - perhaps the planned upgrade - which has broken my commenting system. I’ll try to get it sorted out tonight.
Apologies to anyone who had a nice meal / had a nice pint of beer / saw a drunken tramp with his willy out and wanted to talk about it here.
Update: It looks like we have a corrupt table in the database, which could be VERY BAD NEWS as it would mean all my comments are gone. Cross fingers, please.
Update: Hooray!!!
February 12th, 2007
ewookie Says (#15707):
February 13th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
welcome back Peter
Alan Dale Says (#15710):
February 13th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Well done Peter.
I finally got to catch up on the end of the street drinking debate that had the blog in uproar at such a technically difficult time.
Point 71 Reggie Guru thinks I’m Foxy Al! My name is Alan and I once put a message of support for Foxtons on Se5 forum. 2+2 =?
Not me I’m afraid. It would be convenient if I was the only person in SE5 with a non-standard Guardian belief set but it’s simply not the case.
Well it won’t be if Foxy moves in anyway. And don’t forget Vivienne…
Mumu Says (#15711):
February 13th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
What a relief its back
I was actually having to do work rather than sitting idly reading the blog
FoxyAl Says (#15712):
February 13th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
I am glad that the blog is back as well as I put an offer in for a place at the weekend and this blog was one of the main reasons for doing so!
Are there any other local bones of contention I need to be aware of before I move in?
Mumu Says (#15715):
February 13th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Speaking of SE21 (point 77 previous stream of consciousness) I would thoroughly recommend the Dulwich Picture Gallery if you ever have a free hour or two - I went to the Canaletto in London exhibition at the weekend and was very impressed with the paintings (apart from with the crowds of people but its good that its so popular and I shouldnt have chosen Sunday afternoon I suppose)
And its only a short bus/cycle ride from SE5…
More information on the gallery at http://www.dulwichpicturegallery.org.uk
Dagmar Says (#15717):
February 13th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
I was reading that people actually do 45 minutes real work a day in offices.
My 3 year-old girl said to me an “op waiter” is “an animal that lives in an office”.
I crossed my legs, not my fingers, Peter. Now my social life is back, yay!
Alan Dale Says (#15719):
February 13th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Hope it works out for you Foxy. I can’t think of anything that really divides us quite so markedly as the vulnerable adult situation.
That’s why people were still reacting to your posts over the weekend and up to today.
It doesn’t usually go far beyond where the best source of organic veg is or what is the most environmentally sound way to get about town…
Do you really read the Daily Mail as was so frequently alleged in the last thread?
FoxyAl Says (#15720):
February 13th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I am not a big Daily Mail reader, it is a bit right wing for me. My paper of choice is the Daily Star - plenty of laughs and lots to look at too! Only joking, I guess I am more of a Guardian/Viz reader.
And there was me thinking that Camberwell was the hot bed of political debate! I am a bit dissapointed that all the liberal, tolerant residents were so quick to brand me as right wing thug for not liking tramps. I must have stumbled into “hug a hobo” week by accident…
On another note, what is the swimming pool like? it looks a bit small and dingy from the outside…
Alan Dale Says (#15721):
February 13th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Hehe- that is a bit of a thorny issue. Have a read on the SE5 forum.
I personally would like to see a big sell of council buildings and brownfield sites to get loads of new residents in to bolster the local economy but I am reluctant to say that of the leisure centre as I have never used it and many people seem very keen to keep it.
I have used East Dulwich Leisure centre though and its bloody awful. That one should definitely be binned.
A really good pool is the open air Lido in Brockwell park. Only in the summer mind…
FoxyAl Says (#15722):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I love the Lido and it if it half as good as that i will have no complaints. In general, I am all for these little local leisure centres as the local communtities don eed access to these kind of facilities. I just thought it could do with a face lift but I wouldn’t want it to close.
Is there a good restaurant in the area?
Alan Dale Says (#15725):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Loads.
I am a big fan of Willow on Denmark Hill. There is also a good Thai on Coldharbour Lane called Sri Thai.
Alternatively there is a Vietnamese - Hoa Viet on Camberwell Church Street which is good.
I like Tadim Cafe also on Church St but her indoors got a cock-roach in her cous-cous. I have been back but she’s less quick to forgive.
Lulu Says (#15726):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
where is willow? on denmark hill road? i’ve never seen it. what kind of food can you expect?
Mumu Says (#15727):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
I’d recommend Safa on Camberwell Church Street and the New Dewaniam on Camberwell New Road for Indian food and Mozarella e Pomodores for Italian. The Vineyard on Camberwell Grove is a good Greek restaurant although they have a tendency to serve chips with everything even when there is also rice and bread.
Pubwise the Sun and Doves is good, the George Canning on Grove Lane is generally good but a bit variable and the Dark Horse is good if you dont mind small portions. The Castle isnt bad but again can be a bit variable. For breakfast the Jungle Cafe on Camberwll Church Street cant be beaten
Mumu Says (#15728):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
…And of course Sophocles Bakery is good for bread
Alan Dale Says (#15731):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Willows Restaurant Ltd
81, Denmark Hill, London, SE5 8RS
Tel: 020 7703 9898
I’d say it’s modern eclectic in theme…
Lulu Says (#15742):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Will give it a try – thanks. Is anyone celebrating Valentine’s this year? I don’t really like going out for dinner on Feb 14, myself, as all the restaurants are full of lovesick couples or couples who are obviously going through the motions and don’t tend to speak to one another. Either way I find most restaurants are devoid of any atmosphere.
Mumu Says (#15743):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
And they charge over the odds
There was an interesting article about this in the Gaurdian last week - see http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,2007650,00.html
FoxyAl Says (#15744):
February 13th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Some good suggestions. Thanks for that. I am hoping I can avoid the a valentines meal but I think my girlfriend may have other ideas.
She has said she doesn’t want a present but of course she does. In this situation do you think flowers will suffice or am I entitled to take her at her word and not even mention valentines?
Lulu Says (#15747):
February 13th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Flowers are definitely an under-rated present in my opinion. If you know what her favourite flower is, that helps. But don’t buy a cheesy bunch with a plastic teddy or heart stuck in amongst the bunch. Go for classy and classic – a good sign is if the florist has raffia and brown paper – rather than plastic sleeves – to wrap the flowers in. A good but low-rent curry house is always a good last-minute dinner option…
Mumu Says (#15748):
February 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Pesh florists opposite Woolworths always seem to have a good selection of flowers
Alan Dale Says (#15749):
February 13th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
I read an article that said the flowers in an average bouquet have travelled a combined total of over 22,000 miles. Not sure how accurate it is but either way I think you should stick to daffodils at this time of year to avoid unnecessary carbon emissions…
Mumu Says (#15750):
February 13th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Yes Leo Hickman tackled this in the Guardian last year (sad I know but I remember it and tracked it down - see http://money.guardian.co.uk/ethicalliving/story/0,,1709448,00.html)
it seems to be an ethical minefield and the only good flowers ar ethose that are grown at home or pot plants. Interestingly Department For International Development Minister Hilary Benn in yesterday’s Independent noted that flowers grown in Africa and flown over to here might be better environment-wise than those grown in Europe as in most of Europe they require heated greenhouses etc which use up lots of fossil fuels. Its a tricky one.
FoxyAl Says (#15752):
February 13th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Nice one. I can now forget about Valentines with a clear conscience. Flowers are bad for the environment! Not sure she will buy that but it will do for me.
Maybe that argument works for cards as well. I think I will just give her a firm handshake and tell her to stop being so selfish!
Alan Dale Says (#15753):
February 13th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
If she buys you a gift you should give her a stern talking do about shirking her environmental responsibility.
Ask her how you could be expected to consider having children with someone who has such a low regard for the future or the planet.
FoxyAl Says (#15754):
February 13th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
I have half a mind to get rid of the ignorant cow. Who does she think she is?
Peter Says (#15755):
February 13th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Fly her to a city about an hour away, then rent a 4×4 and take her off-roading across a conservation area, then at dinner have some nice foie gras and Kenyan vegetables. Then present her with a nice big uncertified diamond.
Go on; it’s what Clarkson would do.
Mumu Says (#15758):
February 13th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
and then come down to Camberwell Green and drink heavily before shouting at passers by and exposing yourself
Alan Dale Says (#15759):
February 13th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Not sure Clarkson would do that!
Dagmar Says (#15762):
February 13th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
I used to be lovesick, now the baby’s sick, did a BRB-sized pavement pizza in her cot last night.
Inspired Valentine’s gift: a model Citroen DS (”deesse” = goddess). The Butterfly Walk 99p shop has a fascinating selection of French die-cast Citroen DS models including the amazing 1973 six-wheeled DS fourgon Tissier >. There is a beautiful pale turquoise and cream 1962 ID 19 > and a fab 1963 > model in dark blue.
They normally sell for a tenner. I think they have >. Our baby plays with ‘em, holding one in each hand like ice creams.
Dagmar Says (#15763):
February 13th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Peter, when you “ouvrez les guillemets” the text disappears.
Dagmar Says (#15764):
February 13th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
C’est guillemetiste, n’est-ce pas? Ca me gene, ca.
bukowski333 Says (#15796):
February 14th, 2007 at 3:51 am
I’m on holiday for 5 days and come back to find everything getting a bit Clapham. Oh dear .
Rosy Says (#15808):
February 14th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Skiing? What a hoot!
Mark Says (#15809):
February 14th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Dagmar : Citroen Deesse: If there’s any left in stock.. I’m not in Cambeerwell until next week. I’d love it if you could buy some of them for me, one in each colour would be great… an odd number makes me more comfortable than even; odd numbers look better on a shelf than symmetry. Pleeese! Back on 19th following excitement at S&D on 18th.
On the local property ladder Alan’s on about brownfield and local authority owned land being put to good use by developers.
Well who better to put land to good use than a developer who’s a Community Development Trust that’s run by informed locals equipped with the creative wit, intellectual balls and gutsy stamina to make something really exciting happen to their area.
Mark Says (#15810):
February 14th, 2007 at 9:05 am
it’s just a thought…
Peter Says (#15813):
February 14th, 2007 at 10:03 am
@Dagmar: When you use a ‘less than’ < symbol, the software thinks you are going to use HTML code, so it hides any content after it, until there is a close.
If you want to use the symbol, write & lt ; without the spaces.
Regeneguru Says (#15815):
February 14th, 2007 at 10:36 am
@Alan and Mark
Obviously there are certain brownfield sites for which there is little alternative than conversion to residential.
However, brownfield needs to be more strictly defined as it has recently been interpreted by Southwark and Lambeth to include shops in the middle of otherwise functioning shopping parades and there is surely a vast difference between an industrial concrete wasteland and an existing, viable community resource which may have architectural value.
I also think we need to get away from the Nietzschean approach that everything must reach its value, and that local entrepreneurs and smallholders are somehow guilty of finishing second in a survival of the fittest.
An exclusively resident-commuter community is not a healthy one, and means that social capital, at an all-time low for post-industrial times, will plummet still further. This has implications for crime (shootings), health, political engagement and quality of life.
Ps my Bolshevik alter ego is Zolot (similar to the words evil and gold in Russia, just as Stalin is derived from “steel”).
Alan Dale Says (#15817):
February 14th, 2007 at 10:58 am
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, greed is good. Greed works, greed is right. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed in all its forms, greed for life, money, love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind — and greed, mark my words — will save not only Teldar Paper but that other malfunctioning corporation called Camberwell.
Regeneguru Says (#15821):
February 14th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Close, Alan.
Self-interest, or better still enlightened self-interest, is what I think you are talking about.
Greed is slightly different, and comes with the caveat that it admits no social obligations, as follows:
Gangstas interpret it to mean the right to shoot people for the probability of a ten pound note.
Robber capitalists for the right to denude their home country of its natural resources, sold cheaply, wastefully and quickly to avoid regulation and so increase the burden of unnecessary taxation on those citizens most ill-equipped to pay, leading many to turn to crime and the grey economy, further burdening the taxation system. Meaning less police, education, and health.
Third Way Chancellors mortgage future governments to inefficient and low quality PFI deals which lead to lower quality of life and far higher taxation, as private companies have to borrow at a higher rate than governments. In this case it’s more a case of lust (for the leadership position), with a willingness to compromise national interests to purchase a temporary reputation for prudence.
It’s worth mentioning that high crime, the result of preternaturally low social capital in Camberwell, deters private investment and that this impoverishes everyone, including houseowners.
Alan Dale Says (#15823):
February 15th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Semantics.
Roana Says (#15825):
February 15th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
@ bukowski333:
Is ‘going a bit Clapham’ cockerny rhyming slang for “Slap ‘em”, or…?
sg Says (#15838):
February 15th, 2007 at 4:29 pm
I didn’t realise there were so many socialists and capitalists living side by side in Camberwell.
Here’s me thinking its just your average inner city south London suburb. Full of lower middle class - working class folks. Salt of the earth, as it were.
Next I know, we-ve got Gordon Gekko and Citizen Smith living amongst us.
squidder Says (#15842):
February 15th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
@Alan.
when you say “upward surge of mankind” what do you mean? and when did this upward surge begin?
Alan Dale Says (#15843):
February 15th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Well Christmas is over and business is business. We’re going into a new age pal.
The Duke of Denmark Hill Says (#15846):
February 15th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Went for Saturday breakfast with my copy of the Guardian at the George Canning - after waiting an eternity for their already vvvveeeerrrryyyy relaxed service (painfully painfully slow), a braying Daily-Mail reading berk brazenly pushed in. And got served first!
How long until all-out war on the streets of SE5?
Alan Dale Says (#15847):
February 15th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
The public is out there throwing darts at a board, sport. I don’t throw darts at a board. I only bet sure things. Read Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War.” ‘every battle is won before it is ever fought.’ Think about it.
bukowski333 Says (#15855):
February 15th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Roana - Clapham stands for all that is wrong in London. Not rhyming slang. The dark side. I was suggesting that Alan Dale and FoxyAl may be better catered for there.
ben patio Says (#15860):
February 15th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
So I will ask the question on everyone’s lips - Does Alan eat lunch?
squidder Says (#15861):
February 15th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
“greed is good”? “christmas”? “sport”? “pal”? “sun tzu”?
“kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. your life has no rationalisation, please rid the world of your evil presence.”
bukowski333 Says (#15866):
February 15th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Foxton’s
squidder Says (#15867):
February 15th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
uber alles
Alan Dale Says (#15912):
February 16th, 2007 at 8:00 am
Lunch? Are you joking — lunch is for wimps. Squidder you need a friend, get a dog, it’s trench warfare out there sport. At least buy yourself a new suit.
squidder Says (#15972):
February 16th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
@Alan. The last time I checked my suit was made for me by those lovely people at Norton & Sons in Savile Row. It would be vulgar of me to reveal how much it cost. But why don’t you carry on there in the trenches, it ’suits’ you.
Dagmar Says (#16087):
February 17th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Are you Gilbert & George?
Mark Says (#16104):
February 17th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Dagmar, was that directed at them both? squidder and Alan doing a fine double act.
Dagmar Says (#16388):
February 19th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Yes, it was. I thought calling them “you two” would be a bit belittling. My pardner often says “you two” to me and a daughter and I find it very belittling.
squidder Says (#16400):
February 19th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
More like George and Mildred!
copeywolf Says (#16474):
February 20th, 2007 at 8:30 am
Speaking about Gilbert & George, that plummy-voiced art critic who looks like a tortoise was slating their current retrospective in the Standard on Friday.
Amongst his many swipes was a criticism of their prolific exhibiting, saying they’d stooped so low as to show “at The South London Gallery and in Milton Keynes”. !*@*!
Dagmar Says (#16753):
February 22nd, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Brian Sewell. He is a tragic character. He only likes the kind of paintings that appear on transfers on the side of his mum’s old biscuit tin. He sees himself as a voice crying in the wilderness.
I like him. He used to write a superb column on cars in the Standard. He is very funny about Gilbert and George in that article who are OK but not exactly David Hockney.