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Welcome to the Camberwell Online blog, a place for free and spirited exchange on anything with even a tangential connection to the South-East London district.
A lovely Sunday
Published by Peter | Filed under Eating & Drinking, General
Is there anything better than a sunny Sunday morning? Don’t answer that, it’s rhetorical.
When we opened the door to the lounge and the sunlight bathed us, we knew it was time to get out and enjoy it. Keen to break fast in the sun, we walked down to Chumleigh Gardens for the all-day breakfast. The food’s not great, but the environment more than makes up for it. Courting pigeons, a hurrying fox, and happy families made it a pleasurable hour. We also met blog readers MishMash and Merrick (sounds like odd-couple private detectives - a clown and an ex-cop).
We walked off breakfast with a circuit of the park, enjoying its disparate groups; the geese and ducks and fishermen at the pond; the junior rugby league; the South American football tournament; the West Asian cricket games; the pocket boy racers with their remote-controlled monster trucks; the dog walkers; the tennis players; hundreds of people enjoying leisure time. Made me feel quite sentimental.
In the evening, to the Phoenix for a few drinks with an assortment of blog readers. Thanks to Mishmash & Merrick (again), SG, Copeywolf, Amanda Fuller, Luke, Dickdotcom and their respective lurker friends/partners for coming along. Sorry if I didn’t get a chance to talk to some of you as much as I’d have liked, but I hope everyone enjoyed themselves and put faces to some of the names on here.
I think next time we’ll try to advertise it a bit further ahead, and perhaps try for somewhere a bit more central. And I will bring along Bubbles the horse, to avoid the questions of his whereabouts.
After the Phoenix, myself and my mail-order bride went to the George Canning for a steak sandwich / burger. Nice, but I was feeling a little numbed by the Frulli at the Phoenix so we retired to bed shortly afterwards.
Lovely Sunday.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:05 am
Sorry didn’t make it yesterday, too much crammed into too little time. Hope you all had a good natter. Will fdefinitely make next time if at all possible. Funnily enough going to meet Bunbohue (?) right now.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Hello. I’m sorry too - had planned to join you in the Pheonix, but the fine weather meant I loitered longer than expected on a visit to see friends - we were sat in the garden, in March! What a gorgeous spring day.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Gald to hear a good time was had by all. Let me know when the next get together will be.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Apologies for my non-attendance. I was in Chamonix this weekend and I’m sure I saw a former Doves barman there. Small world indeed.
Anyway- there was lots of excited talk of second home buying but I think the prospects are better here. Especially if Burgess Park continues its upward march…
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Sorry only to stay for an hour too - the combination of a heavy Saturday night and a heavy Sunday fence-fixing meant that the prospect of a second pint was not an attractive one and I needed to go and lie-down on my sofa and watch TV
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March 12th, 2007 at 10:32 am
My apologies for leaving you off the list, Dickdot (if I may be so informal). Obviously the Frulli made me more muddle-headed than I realised!
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 10:36 am
Now that was fun - but did I ever have a hangover this morning!
My apologies for harranguing you poor sassenachs about the relentless march of celtic nationalism.
Slainte!
Drew Mishmash
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am
The Dagmar family was en route from Greenwich Pizza Express to the bath. Our baby was one the day before and we took her to Farming World near Faversham so she could see where she fits in, in the scheme of things, somewhere between the bunnies and the lambs.
Peter, Ellie posted soon before 8 in the morning after a Friday night on the razz, I bet. What happens is the inhibitions are lost and then gradually recovered, with the guilt kicking in like turbo-lag, “Omigod, did I say that?”
Tourettes’s is similar - you say the thing you dread you’ll say.
Your Sunday sounds fab. I notice at this time of year the sun shines through the daffodils, not just on them, so the plants cells are brightly lit up, and the flower heads glow like stained glass windows. It is no wonder Wordsworth described them as golden.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Sorry I couldn’t come but my parole officer wouldn’t let me. Despite being low-risk category I’m not allowed to meet people from the internet.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Lovely to meet everyone (again, very briefly) yesterday. Mr Roana (aka Luke) and I are definitely up for a longer meeting next time… and suggest that Team Blog enter the Phoenix Pub Quiz!
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
I had a great time in the Phoenix, was fun to meet you all, hubby also had a great time and is now planning to do less lurking and more blogging!
I also had a slight ‘head’ this morning but a bagel and strong coffee sorted me out in no time…
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Yep, it was great to meet some of the bloggers.
Interesting conversations about the SE5 Forum, Wordsworth’s, cycling to work and of course, Starbucks.
Excellent idea about Team Blog entering the pub quiz. They also run a pub quiz at the Grove on a Monday night, to give us another option.
Suggest we stack the team with some experts - e.g. Alan Dale on local house prices, perhaps?
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I can be the expert on the UK immigration laws (and how to circumvent them).
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Alan - you saw Felix - he was poached by a customer here last year who has a bar over there - Felix enjoys doing crazy things on snow, the customer said ‘fancy a job in Chamonix?’ I don’t think Felix hesitated for long.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
People like Felix are quite hard to find.
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March 12th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Yes it was Felix. Definitely I remember his name now that you’ve said it.
Nice guy.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Was there any snow Alan? Listening to Riviera radio last week, all they kept on saying was ‘don’t bother waxing your skis,it’s too warm.’
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
It was very sunny but there was plenty on the higher slopes. You couldn’t ski all the way down into the town though.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
One of the reasons I love this blogsite is the democracy that you display in your management of it, Peter. You could easily have removed the offensively personal comment posted earlier, but you chose not to and instead, make comedic references to it in later postings. You have my applause for that.
[Reply]
March 12th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I’ve just put into moderation a comment by someone claiming to be Alan Dale, although from a different email and IP address. Alan, did you post here at about 10.30pm?
One thing I won’t tolerate here is users impersonating other users; provocative speech I can take, but abuse of trust I can’t.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Dashed Beliefs. Faith Destroyed. Fantasy Ruined.
I found out about Alan Dale at the weekend; I mean the fact that Alan Dale is a pseudonym. A nom de plume de ma tante. And not even from East Enders but from Neighbours. Shock Horror.
You see until then I thought Alan was the only person other than me and Peter, and er perhaps NickW, and maybe Amanda Fuller (although now I imagine she’s from Coronation Street) who blog as themselves and can fairly easily be chased down and identified.
Don’t watch television you see. Shameful.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 6:38 am
Yes, I find it interesting that those who tend to post provocative or shall we say controversial views on this blog also found reasons for not attending the meet on Sunday.
Concerns about facing up to people, perhaps?
Bravo to those who had the courage to attend - its easy to hide behind a pseudonym and remain one dimensional.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I do post from two different locations and I did turn my machine on at 10.30 but I am afraid I don’t remember whether I actually posted anything.
Thanks for your vigilance anyway.
As well as being a street in Selborne Village (Allendale) I am also in Ugly Betty and the OC. Small world eh?
Sorry that you thought I might exist beyond cyberspace…
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:20 am
SG - Facing up to people? Do me a favour. As far as I can tell only Ellie has ever been personally rude to people. Everyone else has only expressed a legitimately held personal opinion. Why would they be afraid of meeting people? Do you think your intellectual wrath is so terrifying?
Rather I think that people have other things going on. Indeed, Alan proved he was in Chamonix, the coward.
For most people, blogs are not the be all and end all. There really is a smug liberal superiority on this site which can be oppresive.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:25 am
Mushtimushta - Agreed. Peter should be applauded for his running of the site.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Maybe Foxy is right.
There might be less call for pseudonyms if there was more tolerance on the site however I am personally a little suspicious of people who post in their own name.
Seems a bit vain to me…
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:43 am
I have no problems with people using pseudonyms; my problem comes when people start impersonating other peoples pseudonyms.
I know you sometimes post from different locations, Alan, but have you ever used the email address a@joke?
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:46 am
I just got into this habit from the book trade - I was drew mishmash, and dealt with nick pumpkin, simon greenvale, trevor lomond, and tim wordsworth.
There are some issues with using surnames, as they can be tied to addresses and the like; some people just always wanted to be spiderman44.
I can promise you that “Is Alan Dale coming? was the first question everyone asked on Sunday.
have a chilled day
drew mishmash
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Not me.
Wow! Brilliant interception.
Quite flattering to be impersonated though. Got to be good for houseprices.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 8:50 am
Get out my arse Drew! (joking)
You should never meet your heroes.
I saw David Dimbleby on London Bridge this morning.
Much shorter than I expected.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Ever thus, Alan.
People “off the telly” are always either much shorter, or much taller than you think.
Or they have appalling dress sense, that needs to be rectified by “wardrobe”.
Drew Mishmash
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Hmmm… I don’t think you’d have been quite as flattered had you seen the post in question.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:21 am
@Drew - I know I never had Dec Donnely down as 6ft 2″.
@Peter- For the sake of this thread I think we need you to tell us what was posted.
I can take it.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:32 am
@FoxyAl - ok, “facing up” was probably a bad choice of phrase. I apologise. Maybe “having the courage of your convictions” might have been better.
But it amuses me that after making a couple of good points, you then proceed to throw out a couple of insults.
You sure you don’t work for Foxtons?? Ooops, there I go, throwing insults back again
Er, unless you do, of course. In which case, maybe you see that as a compliment.
Excellent.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Peter - I don’t think you should have mentioned it. Certainly don’t post it otherwise you may as well have let this unscrupulous person get away with it in the first place.
Not attending a freindly drink is one thing, trying to undermine someone you disagree with by impersonating them is altogether more cowardly and should not be dignified with a response.
Alan - Is David Dimbleby your hero?
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Foxy is right again. Ignore the imposter.
Yes I am a fan of massive fan of David’s since he accidentally referred to Robin Cook as “Robin Cock” on Question Time.
But we should not speak ill of the dead..
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:47 am
To be honest it was more silly than offensive. It was very out of character for Alan, which is what flagged my attention to it. I won’t be repeating it here.
My issue is not that someone made a silly/rude post pretending to be Alan, but that someone pretended to be him at all.
And by the way, I don’t judge anyone at all for not attending the drink on Sunday. I was happy that some people did, not angry that some people didn’t.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:55 am
@Sg- Foxtons bashing again?!
I had three Big Macs at one sitting in Chamonix. They weren’t greasy and they were piping hot.
Say what you want about French food but you cannot beat their take on the Golden Arches.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Sg - I have not insulted you. I have made a general comment on the overall theme of posts on this blog. I am sorry if you misunderstood.
I will chose to keep my indentity and profession a closely guarded secret. If it ever got out, I may have to kill everyone on this site…
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 10:03 am
You may stike me down but I will return more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
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March 13th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Hey Alan
Being a skint ex-bookseller and not a fantabulously wealthy property speculator, I’ve never been to Chamonix to eat a Big Mac.
Is it true that you can have a beer with it? And is the Quarter Pounder really called a Royale?
Did you fly? Cheaply? Honestly? Have you paid your carbon offset? Mishmash and Merrick Detective Agency will find out if you’ve been naughty…
Bon Chance
Drew Mishmash
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 11:39 am
@Drew- Yes. Yes. No- City Airport is worth the premium. Yes. Not unless you count replacing my patio with lawn as an adequate offset.
I am going to Vegas in April. I have paid to offset that. Only £14 though. Can that really be right?
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
lol@alan.
I can only imagine how much it must upset you.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
More dissappointed than upset. Check out all of the prior stuff on the forum….
http://www.se5forum.org/forum/index.php?topic=167.msg1969;topicseen#new
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March 13th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Alan - £14 to save the planet? Sounds like mumbo jumbo to me. Personal environmentalism is about as worthwhile as playing the lottery. But as long as you sleep better at night…
Have a little read of what Littlejohn has to say on the subject:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/columnists/columnists.html?in_article_id=441840&in_page_id=1772&in_author_id=322
You have to admit he has a point….
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March 13th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
It’s been a while since I’ve read Littlejohn; thanks for making me laugh on a stressful day.
His point: everyone else is polluting, what’s the point in us stopping? Not very original, or clever. I might as well chuck my litter on the street, as other people aren’t going to stop doing it. I might as well crap on the road, as some dog owners don’t clear theirs up.
Honestly, the man’s an idiot. The frightening thing is that his brand of idiocy is popular.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
That’s ace! Where do you start with Littlejohn? Very funny.
With regard to my £14 I paid it so that I can take the moral high ground at dinner parties and it really works.
A lot of people much more left leaning than me have never thought to off-set their carbon and it annoys them to hear I’m one step ahead of the game.
Is there really no one in Morecambe capable of picking up a cockle? Class.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I think you are deliberately misrepresenting him, the dog mess analogy does not work. If he were saying that everyone in India does not clean up after their dog so neither am I, then that would be stupid.
His point is that the problem is global and paying a nominal amount of money to carbon offset you holidays abroad is basically meaningless.
He is generally a buffoon, I agree, but I do think people talk crap about the environment because it is trendy now.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
So how do we save the world Foxy?
Or should we not bother?
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
The Camberwell festival is upon us and promises the best weather and firmest going for years. In the first race:
Alan Dale 2-1
Foxy Al 4-1
Smug Liberal 8-1
Lord Henry 10-1
Ellie 50-1
Jean Baudrillard 100-1
100-8 bar
And they’re off. Oh, what’s this? Jean Baudrillard is coming through on the inside rail and has taken the race by a nose. Or has he? There’s a steward’s enquiry. Or is there?
And the winner is Spring Song, ridden by Felix Mendelsohn, trained by John Ruskin and owned by Henry Maudsley. And the crowd are going mad.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I think that’s Reggie Guru’s theory.
‘the beauty will save the world.’
I think he took it from the film ‘The Matrix’.
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
And so I return to maudlin Albion to find a rum communication, on the silver salver in my front parlour, from a decidedly odd cove referring to himself as “Professor NASI”.
This “Professor NASI” is, apparently, a “specialist in all affective Problems”. “Return immediately and definitely the person you love” he offers, in his garbled English. “Relief from being Be-witched” is also advertised. “I can cure people,” he avows, “Victims of Evil Forces, Witchcraft & Black Magic. I will protect you from all Jealous Enemies…My work is serious and Confidential with quick results. English spoken.”
Gibberish, I hear you cry. Base mumbo-jumbo. Toss his card into the fireplace and think no more about it, your Lordship.
This was my initial reaction also, till I was filled with a vague sense of unease. There is something Satanic about this “Professor NASI”. I believe he wishes me ill. I believe his calling-card is not the Third World hogwash it purports to be, but a coded death sentence intended for yours truly. I believe…Good God, though it chills me to the marrow to admit it, I believe Carstairs has returned!!!
[Reply]
March 13th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
…Which reminds me, one of Sunday night’s topics of conversations was: how many Lords in SE5?
We came up with:
(Our very own) Lord Henry
Lord Avebury
Lord Stone
Anymore for anymore?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 8:35 am
This carbon footprint / fee for pollution is merely the contemporary equivalent of Pilates (not the silly yoga thing) hand washing,
a green washing sop to the middle classes who seek to mask and decieve themselves about the true nature of their conspicuous consumption and avarice.
The Economist a few months ago, in a discussion about Fairtrade, talked of the ‘almost unlimited gulibilty’ of would be ethical consumers. They wish to be seen as ‘ethical’ or ‘green’ in the eyes of others, and are affluent enough to purchase consciences. Many people in the developing world - or indeed many strugglers here
don’t have this smug luxury, to merely survive
with basic food, medicine, housing is enough.
Dave Cameron’s Hybrid V8 Lexus doesn’t help anyone except himself, certainly not global warming.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Personally I think Pilate was right to stay out of the whole sorry crucifixion affair. Have you seen the Passion of the Christ? In Mel Gibson’s version JC had plenty of opportunities to stop pretending to be God and save himself.
With regard to carbon off-setting then if some people assuage their guilt with carbon offsets whilst others assuage theirs with denial then I think the first set have the moral high ground.
Labour’s 60% cut in CO2 emissions target may be less than some would like but the only reason a commitment to a cut came about was because ‘people talk crap about the environment because it is trendy now’.
To fly in the face of those trends and dismiss them as pointless seals our fate. Even if you genuinely believe we are already doomed can you really be sure? Is it not best to remain optimistic and keep on trying for change until the flood waters engulf the Green?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Alan Dale - i would say that we have a responsibility to at least attempt to save the planet irrespective of what others are doing- polluting.
Littlejohns opinions are representative of the ignorance of the majority
so even if the current’green washed politics play up to popular social trends they should be imbraced as there is only a descent into daily mail barbarism as an alternative.
I just hate those fake greens/ethical shoppers!
Shit
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Returning to post 53 you forget Lord Whitty of Camberwell who as Larry Whitty was Labour Party General Secretary from 1985 - 1994, created a peer in 1996 and then from 1997 onwards was road safety minister, farming minister and government whip in the lords. He is now Vice President of Transport 2000 and still an active peer.
I presume he still lives in Camberwell
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Alan - I would agree that we have a responsibility to save the planet but if your green efforts are rendered redundant by the actions, and confirmed future actions, of others then anything you do to that end is pointless and you are only doing it for yourself.
Going on lots of foreign holidays and occasionally planting a tree does not make you green. Why do things solely to claim the moral high ground? You are fooling no one but yourself.
I agree with Bunbohoe - fake greens are the new champagne socialists!
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 11:11 am
You still haven’t answered the last question Foxmeister? What do you suggest we do?
Noone is perfect but on the right/wrong spectrum those occupying the moral high ground are the closest to virtue.
The country is run by ‘Champagne socialists’ and ‘fake greens’ are shaping the global political agenda.
What are you doing by giving up on the planet for the sake of an easy life?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Saying that we shouldn’t make changes because other people won’t is a pretty moronic attitude; likewise, thinking that carbon offsetting will save us is also pretty dumb. However, faced between doing something and doing nothing, obviously carbon offsetting is the better option.
However, the real changes will have to be made at a more fundamental level; taking less short flights, rather than taking the same number of flights but paying a small amount to assuage your guilt about doing so.
I haven’t seen Al Gore’s film, but I’m assuming that the ‘Inconvenient’ in the title refers to the fact that we’re going to have to give up many of the conveniences of modern living we have got used to.
Littlejohn and pals see this as an unacceptable option and so produce the bluster that they do. Unfortunately, I suspect that we won’t have an option.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
I am going to try.
That said I would feel much better about it if I didn’t think I was acting alone in a void.
‘Call me Dave’ has put my mind at rest a little with his designs on green taxation but I am astounded that Labour are intentionally letting the Tories ‘out-green’ them on airtravel in favour of nicking Littlejohn’s vote.
Where now?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Peter - I think you over simplify the argument again. There is not a choice of “carbon offsetting” on one hand and then doing nothing on the other. Saying that we shouldn’t make changes because other people won’t is a pretty moronic attitude - True. But saying there is little point doing something until the rest of the world agrees to do so too is not a moronic attitude. It is the only one which makes sense.
Alan - I don’t have all the answers. But until we get some kind of global agreement on what needs to be done there seems little point in not popping over to Paris for the weekend. Maybe we are all doomed but I am not going to go without whilst we all wait to fry.
I would happily vote for a party with a coherent environmental poilcy. Sadly there isn’t one.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
I didn’t say those were the only two options, just that they were the two we were discussing.
Regarding your second point: that’s the problem, isn’t it? No-one wants to take the first step. Why should I go without my cheap flight to Paris while my neighbour still flies there? And as long as we’re all fannying around waiting for someone to take the lead, we’re spewing more crap into the atmosphere.
Think of it the other way around; if you took the lead by cutting down on your electricity usage, for example, you’d be the one smiling when your consumerist neighbour suddenly gets landed with an enormous bill.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
We’re not going to get a global agreement on environmental issues until nations stop seeking competitive advantage over one another - ie not until the nation state ceases to exist.
I think that the nation state is inreasingly irrelevant, but that’s a different matter. he point is, we can’t afford to sit here saying we’re not going to clean up our back yard unless Chine cleans up hers - it’s futile and ultimately nothing will happen and we’ll all fry/freeze depending on whether you buy the gulf stream theory.
The point is to try to reduce carbon emmissions without restricting economic growth. Once those technologies exist it is up to the West, whose economic welbeing has been built on the back of imperial exploitation, to provide those technologies to the rest of the world.
WE have a responsibility to take the lead on this - we can’t wait for China to make the first move.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Yes but my neighbour has a great time using all that electricity and I am still getting hotter!
Isn’t that the point?
It is not like India and China can’t afford their leccy bill.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
No it’s not, it’s about taking a collective moral responsibility.
We’re not going to be able to persuade Chine and India to stop consuming power. They’re still much, much poorer than we are. They are striving for equality and they justify their polluting that way. We on the other hand ARE top of the pile. We need to develop technology and export it ASAP.
We also, realistically, should stop flying altogether. But that’s not going to happen.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
A sensible policy will only ever come about in reaction to public pressure at home translating to political pressure on a global scale.
Statements like ‘I am not going to go without whilst we all wait to fry’ actually put pressure on others to step up their polluting for fear of being the only mug to make an effort.
If you are going to harbour such retrogressive thoughts you could do everyone a favour and keep them to yourself. You’re surely not lobbying for everyone to continue polluting freely in anticipation of new restrictions?
Other than that the best thing you can do is off-set as much as you can afford and keep voting for Green taxes, environmentally conscious decision making and curbs on emissions.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Vote green by all means. Off setting is total waste of time.
I think you can separate the personal from the politcal and make an informed decision on how to live your life. Whilst developing economies are polluting the atmosphere to the extent they are there is no point in my radically altering your lifestyle to try and stop gloabl warming.
However, this does not mean you can ignore your obligation to save the planet and you should endorse policies which make an impact on a significant scale. I am not encouraging anyone to pollute, I am just asking that people don’t preach to me about meaningless small scale green initiatives.
If they do put up taxes on short haul flights and I can still afford them, does that mean I can go on holiday with a clear conscious?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Awful spelling. Sorry.
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March 14th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
I suspect you already do have a clear conscience.
It is hypocritical to separate the personal from the political to such an extent that you can do whatever you want as long as you vote against you own behaviour at a general election.
Richie- what is your beef with the nation state? Are you not proud to be British?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
I just think that given the nature of todays financial markets and derregulation etc nation states are mush less important than multinational groups in terms of shaping the way the modern world works.
Western corporations, for example, are some of the biggest investors in China, thus driving growth their, thus fuelling pollution.
Western governments have no power whatsoever to preach to China when we implicitly condone what’s going on.
I’m not expressing myself very well here, in a bit of a rush unfortunately
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
I meant ‘there’.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Alan - Everyone separates the personal form the political to some level. Are you saying you never break a law you agree with?
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Why would I break a law I agree with?
I certainly don’t speed if that’s what you mean.
[Reply]
March 14th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
I too, like Littlejohn, am proud to be a Briton !
I am though a little sick of the appalling historical revisionism that seeks to downplay the true events of British history.
We have to accept the realities of our past not pretend that it never existed.
I am personally descended from Bristol Slavers, whose human rights abuse was regarded merely as a good, but risky business - certainly not morally reproachable in any way.
We should not judge the past by our contemporary
standards , and visa versa.
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March 14th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
@bunbohue - that wasn’t really my point - I’m not talking about apologising for Imperialism, or paying reparations or any such nonsense.
My point may be better explained in terms of a notional ‘historical carbon credit’ system.
The West industrialised first, and fastest. As such we’ve had long-term, sustained growth and released a lot of carbon over the years - or spent a hell of a lot of ‘carbon credits’ over the course of history, if you will. Now we’re wringing our hands and, quite rightly, trying to do something about the whole mess.
Third world countries either haven’t even started to industrialise, are just starting to, or have relatively recently become indistrialised. They have years of carbon credits to spend before they get close to what we have done, and currently there is very little other option for the developing world to, well, develop, other than to emit more and more pollution. It is what economic growth is based on.
This is why it is OUR responsibility to find the solution. We can’t tell the third world to stop developing. We have to find a way to help them to develop without emitting. This will have to involve new technologies, and some sacrifice on our part.
I’m fairly partial to being British too, by the way.
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March 14th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Would you be in favour of carbon trading so that the developing countries can sell us notional historical carbon credits rather than pollute for themselves?
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March 14th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Richie - Are you saying that the answer to global warming is to find a “cure” and give it to developing nations? Brilliant! Why didn’t I think of that?
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March 14th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
So anyway, what’s happening in Camberwell these days?
Anyone been to a good pub / cafe / restaurant lately?
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March 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Nice use of sarcasm FoxyAl. Classy.
I’m saying that we have to realise that the trade off for us (the West) is that we might just have to try to cut back ourselves and accept that the developing world will carry on polluting - this may mean that carbon emmissions increase at a LESSER rate - which is a small victory - either way we can’t just do nothing. We also have to continue to invest in greener technologies, and - and here’s the rub - be willing to pass them on to the developing world at an affordable price rather than at a huge cost that just creates another barrier to development. So it’s part perconal cutting back, part industrial cutting back, and part investing in the full knowledge that there will be little return from emerging markets.
Alan - would be amusing to try it. Imagine the fun in Whitehall trying to untangle that lot.
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March 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I’m enjoying this conversation and am off to the pub to continue it
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March 14th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Do you not think it’s an easy way for the government to claw back some money from the half million or so people who have bought property in Europe in the last few years? It’s not all stag/hen weekends
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March 14th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Trust nothing they say, as Jean Baudrillard said.
There’ll be some fine methane indeed created from the Guinness downed at the Cheltenham festival this year, a brew full of carbon from the roasted malt.
The DULWICH TO BE MADE URBAN hoarding from the South News, Ben Patio, was about Dulwich and Herne Hill being made urban areas where new developments can be approved. The paper has a “keep it suburban” campaign. It’s quite a good paper, to the point, 30p.
The Grove tavern is great, the two who run it good people. They have had complaints about tinned-drink drinkers using their handsome outside furniture in the middle of the night, so need to cover it when they close, which is a pity.
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March 14th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Congratulations Camberwell!
You’ve made it on to my shortlist. I am a cash-rich amateur property developer (I dabble while having a full time desk job), and I have identified Camberwell as one of the top 3 yield-generating locations in London within my price bracket.
I know you must be curious. So let me tell you right now that you are in a straight race with Vauxhall and the ‘golden triangle’ marked out by Brixton, Stockwell and Clapham North tubes.
I was wondering whether I might ask you - you all seem like pretty clued up local types - whether you might help me out with a few due diligence questions. Thanks!
- what sort of yield are you guys generating? (I am looking for >15% p.a.)
- am aware that you may be thinking more about capital gains than rental income. But from a buy-to-let perspective, can you tell me whether there has been a noticable increase in young professionals around Camberwell recently? Any other trends? What was the latest new shop you’ve noticed opening?
- a reminder that you’re up against vauxhall - you will probably be familiar with the St George developments along the river next to the MI6 building. are there are any locations in Camberwell that you think could provide a similar windfall? I was thinking of the hospital. Do you think its feasible that - in the medium term - the Council would close it down and sell of the land? Have you already seen anything encouraging this (petition, letter campaign etc)?
- Naturally transport links are the alpha and omega of my research. Camberwell station works well, and Ken L’s bus improvements will have made a difference I would guess. But can Camberwell really compete against the golden triangle? Don’t forget - in addition to the 3 tube stops, there are also extensive bus links from Brixton High Street, as well as the prospect of a new tram-link. How can you reassure me that Camberwell will still offer relatively easy access to the City in the future?
- Of course, I am looking to buy and flip within 30 months. Have any of you experienced any problems and been forced to go over your flip-timeline?
Thanks alot for all your input! Appreciate it.
By the way - couldnt help scanning one or 2 of your posts. The only thing I would mention about climate change is this. The South East is a temperate zone. Even if the worst predictions were true, the temperature in the SE would rise to around that in present day southern France.
Think about it - VERY good for house prices.
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March 14th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
The sad thing is, I can no longer say with any certainty if this is supposed to be satirical.
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March 14th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Sparty, you have made a really really boring thread quite funny. I say “quite funny” because you are not actually that witty, but you have identified the essential bourgeois nature of this blog. And for that, I salute you, sir!
I’m off now. No more posts from his Lordship. The only thing that keeps me warm at night is the fantasy that I shall some day meet Dagmar.
My image of you, Dagmar, is that you are a Scandinavian (check spelling) beauty who has aged, but aged in the way that I like. I.e. slightly overweight sloppy blonde who will namecheck Jean Genet and Noam Chomsky at the drop of a hat. And I will drop my top hat, Dagmar, to watch you bend over and pick it up.
I look forward to the further bourgeoisation of Camberwell. I do not want coffee houses, cinemas, bookshops, etc. in Camberwell. I want whores, drugs, and booze. Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is.
Lord Henry has left the building.
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March 14th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
I’m REALLY pissed off for loads of reasons that are all to do with Camberwell and the white well of middle class people who all get so concerned about all of the stuff that goes on here and, functionally, do nothing effective about changing it. I’m not sure I can be bothered to be bothered to be bothered anymore about Camberwell.
Thank you Peter for having this blog where I can say this.
I almost give up.
Tommy D I know where you’re coming from although the source of my ire I think be different from yours.
Is that too intemperate to post?
I don’t bloody well care.
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March 14th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
of = “OFF” in all senses of the off.
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March 14th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Sparty’s obviously a twat even if it’s only satire. So don’t go there. And Lord Henry’s probably Dagmar anyway so don’t go there either.
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March 14th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
your clock’s out by an hour Peter
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March 14th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
91
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March 15th, 2007 at 1:32 am
Peter’s clock has been out for an hour for ages, Mark. As a gentleman and a scholar, I didn’t like to comment on this poor timekeeping. Obviously you have no such qualms. Isn’t “qualms” a great word?
I met a floosy in Sydney who described to me the advantages of liquid cocaine. She couldn’t score any for me, though, the tease. I’m assuming you got hold of some tonight, Mark?
91? Is this like the 23 enigma?
If only Dagmar and his Lordship were the same person! If only! That would be my dream come true! She is the only other interesting person on this site, though, so I can understand the misconception.
I do like Alan Dale, however. What happened to you Mum, Alan? She used to post on this site and made me really horny, but then she left, and left be bereft. That’s poetry, slags!
Lord Henry is definitely definitely over and out!
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March 15th, 2007 at 8:02 am
Bye!
Flip, what a kerfuffle!
What a way to greet Sparty with his interest in Camberwell! Camberwell is a nice area, Sparty. The latest shop I have noticed is a coffee shop on Church Street where a commerical art gallery used to be that was somewhat sparse on art.
Church Street is maybe not the right place for such a gallery. The street drinkers (or “footfall” as we call them here) would break the windows and drink from the vases, etc.
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March 15th, 2007 at 8:04 am
My mum is not a slag LH - far from it. I am an only child.
I am delighted by Sparty’s post. Sorry team I know it’s not to your liking but I’m afraid
this was always inevitable.
Sparty- answeres to follow in a bit….
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March 15th, 2007 at 8:25 am
Hi
Mark I’m sorry to hear that the inertia of Camberwell is getting you down.
Maybe it’s because of the swimming pool meeting; maybe something was just the last straw.
But don’t give up; you are providing an avenue for those of us planning a return to action. That is uncountably valuable.
Illigitimi non carborundum, they say..
Drew Mishmash
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March 15th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Sparty,
In the last two years my SE5 smallholding has produced an unrealized annualized ROC of 17%. Income yields are average depending on how much you invest. Rental rates still languish at about £110pw per double bedroom with little premium for high end investments. An income investor would do well to look at ex-council property and shabbier period property to let to the newly graduated/student market. We have both locally. It is worth mentioning however that hospital staff do rent significantly in the streets surrounding the site on Denmark Hill.
There has definitely been a significant increase in young professional activity locally. Anyone who gets the train from Denmark Hill or Loughborough junction to Victoria, Blackfriars, Elephant (for Bakerloo line) and London Bridge will have experienced busier carriages and be suited yuppies littering their previously sparse platforms.
Interesting that you should mention St George as we have our very own St George development at Mary Datchelor School. It is adjacent to the Camberwell Grove conservation area and has consequently been a long time in the planning stage but the light at the end of the tunnel is near. It is a huge site and approval is imminent and this immediate area offers the best potential for a three year flip such as that you enquired after.
In terms of new shops, aside from the plethora of fashionable middle-class bars which have sprung out of the dieing embers of the traditional London pubs, the new independent coffee bars and the constant upgrade and refurbishment of local restaurants I have been particularly encouraged by the opening of Odie and Amanda’s on Grove Lane. This is a middle-class ladies boutique and knick-knackery shop of the type previously only seen locally on Lordship Lane.
I’m afraid that you’re barking up the wrong tree with the hospital. It is a real asset to the local housing market. It provides a constant stream of rental tenants as well as attracting ‘footfall’ to the local businesses.
Transport links are key to my own investment strategy but I am long at a significantly longer time horizon. The completion of the East London Line Western Extension will link Denmark Hill to the City in the East and Clapham Junction in the west. DH will be a single tube stop from Clapham High Street and thus your beloved Golden triangle will become a square. (Quadrilateral at least.) Considering the way gentrification has spread to the previously impoverished far reaches of the northern line then I’m sure you will agree that this will seal our extremely positive financial destiny.
You also mentioned Brixton’s bus links. Pah! Camberwell Green has more and add in the constantly improving cycle links and our fantastic proximity to the square mile and I think you will start to come round to my way of thinking. I currently walk to Monument from my home in Selborne Village in just 45-50 minutes. It is a pleasant stroll and it’s completely Al Qaeda free.
There are other positives to consider but I feel that I’ve said enough.
Mark- snap out of it! You are well on the way to becoming a very Rich man. I see a Sun and Doves on every High St in the country….
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March 15th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Hi
Pardon me for being pedantic here, but a couple of people have used the word footfall recently in commas, and once [albeit cheekily] refering to street drinkers. But they are just business terms…
Footfall is the number and rate of people walking past your door.
Walk-up is the proportion of them who come in.
Conversion Rate is the number of them you sell a book or two to.
Average sale is just that.
For small independent businesses these are the main areas of concern - we don’t have the influence to worry about market share or GP margin.
But if you are constantly striving to develop these four areas it might just work; the fifth element is called ‘lucky bastard’
Agape
Drew Mishmash
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March 15th, 2007 at 11:29 am
foot·fall
1. a footstep.
2. the sound of footsteps: She heard a footfall on the stairs.
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March 15th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Did anyone go to the Baths meeting last night?
DADA news: there was one, solitary banana on the “reduced” shelves in Somerfield, from Honduras. No price sticker, as is often the case.
Conways took away their zebra-striped tea hut today on the back of an Irish-green lorry.
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March 15th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Hi
Yes, I wrote a little bit about it in se5 forum.
My century I think?
Drew Mishmash*
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March 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Great, I can legitimately claim post No.100. I’ve just been to the Forum site to see if there were reports from the Baths meeting. CamberwellOz asks if there is any way the most recent post can be placed at the top of the thread. A long time ago she told the community she was up the duff - and therefore prone to such queries - but her question was answered literally not empathetically. Never mind! There is spring fever in the air.
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March 15th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Damn, missed it. Beaten by a Scots cricketer.
As a user of the Baths for baby-gym purposes, I wonder if the building is too small for big redevelopment and that’s why Southwark are looking to “urbanise” Dulwich so that a big new centre can be built - with a car park.
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March 15th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
@Dagmar… did you go to ‘Madchicks:Losing It’ last week? i was there and thought it was a triumph! I kept an eye out for Dagmar-esque types… saw a couple of likely candidates too… what was your favourite piece / work??
Recommend me some good psychogeographic texts could you? i’m full to the brim with Iain Sinclair, and still need MORE!
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March 15th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I highly recommend Peter Ackroyd’s books if that’s what you’re into. I’ve read Hawksmoor and Dan Leno & The Limehouse Golem, and both are very good.
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March 15th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
thanks to everyone for their comments. By everyone I basically mean Alan Dale, although an honourable mention also goes to Dagmar. Thanks!
I’m slightly disappointed - n.b. not critical, just disappointed - that more of the group didnt reply. Does that indicate a lack of ‘esprit de Camberwell’? I hope not - community activism adds significantly to the bottom line of out-of-town investors such as myself.
I certainly got a lot more feedback from the guys on the Vauxhall site. Thats all I’m saying.
Despite this, I’ve been persuaded that I was completely right to shortlist camberwell. A ROC of 17%+ is highly respectable. And I’m so excited that Camberwell has a conservation area! This could be the making of a Clapham Old Town-style makeover..Alan - I’ve come round to your way of thinking on the hospital too. NHS consultants are getting paid £££££s these days, and they’ll all need somewhere to rent. And if the hospital goes private then I might even end up using the damn thing. its win-win.
And now I’ll reveal the area I’ve decided to eliminate tonight. Its..Vauxhall! Yes, I was mightily impressed by the new riverside developments (you simply cannot tell what was there before they went up), and the amenities are fantastic - last weekend while scoping the neighbourhood I drank a Cafe Nero frothy machuccino while getting a new pair of cuff-links engraved. However, I feel I’ve missed the boat. The St George development cash cow has been milked. I need to go somewhere on the up. Somewhere where the tipping point will soon (ie 30 months or less) be reached. With easy access to the City.
Its a 2-horse race now people. Camberwell, and Stockwell/Brixton/Clapham North. Too tough to call. If anyone has any last minute advice, now is the time to pass it on.
ps drifting off now… This whole posting only in the evening thing makes me feel as though i’m playing correspondence chess… rook to C8, mezzanine loft conversion to SE5.
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March 16th, 2007 at 6:06 am
Sparty,
go to Vauxhall……….
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March 16th, 2007 at 8:34 am
quick hijack- can anyone recomend a good plumber in the camberwell area, or do any of you want to fit a radiator for me?
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March 16th, 2007 at 8:48 am
@sparty
“I drank a Cafe Nero frothy machuccino while getting a new pair of cuff-links engraved.”
Love it!
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March 16th, 2007 at 9:33 am
I can recommend Damian from Aplomb Plumbing. He fitted a bathroom for us, turned up when he said he would, was reasonably priced and was happy for us to do some of the work ourselves. 020 7737 7540
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March 16th, 2007 at 9:42 am
And he can do puns in latin too it seems!
I used to know a carpenter who was a retired opera tenor; it was worth getting him in to fix things just to hear him sing, and tell you his operatic gossip.
Now that’s what tradesmen are really for!
Drew
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March 16th, 2007 at 9:56 am
@Sparty
Last time I was in Upper Street in Angel I shit myself. I have also had extremely bad wind in Vauxhall and Clapham North. I have never had such problems in Camberwell and, incidentally, the only other places I have actually crapped myself are Istanbul and the Peruvian Andees.
I think we’d all agree that property investment potential in Islington, Istanbul and the Peruvian Andees is low and that in Camberwell it is high.
I like to think I have a built-in instinct of some kind; a bit of a ‘human property investment potential divining rod’ if you like, so I’d say you’re right about Camberwell.
I’m going back to Angel this evening and will let everyone know if the potential for investment there has changed, I’m taking some spare underpants just in case it hasn’t. I’m also going skiing next week so I’ll be able to see if ski chalets are a good investment or not.
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March 16th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Thanks, Simon.
I realise I’m an absolute wimp as fitting radiators is not especially technical.
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March 16th, 2007 at 10:11 am
If this works Joe you could make me a very rich man.
How’s your clapper round Nunhead?
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March 16th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Haven’t been to Nunhead for a few years but if you’re willing to commission me I’d be happy to compile a report. I’m cheaper than Uri Geller and Paul McKenna and my assistant is better looking than Debbie McGee.
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March 16th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
How about Middlesbrough? - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6457341.stm
Imagine the returns you would get on that!
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March 16th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Sophie, Just reading the word Middlesbrough gives me a tummy rumble.
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March 16th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Fob; Fizzyfob; Bleak; Brattle; Tear-arse; Splat. Follow Through. Touching Cloth.
Prepare For Immediate Emigration.
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March 16th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
By the way:
SIX NATIONS TOMORROW
3pm at Sun and Doves
I’m so disappointed that I had to do the resarch on this myself. I didn’t know where to start.
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March 16th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Sorry to change the subject - a friend of mine was in the Old Dispensary last night. The bar staff said that it is closing down and it’s last night is Saturday 24 March. They didn’t say why.
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March 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Maybe they’ll know on the clued-up Vauxhall website. Sparty, Dave mate, what’s its address?
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March 16th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
At a guess, I’d say because they weren’t taking enough money. They have an impressive-looking menu and, I’m guessing, an impressive new kitchen to cook it in, but the place was totally unsuited for eating; the tables too small and the bar too cramped.
It was a nice place to have a drink and I’m sad it’s going, and hope someone else takes advantage of that lovely building, but it was really too small to be very successful, IMHO.
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March 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
That’s sad.
However even though it’s one of my nearest pubs i hardly ever go there - as Peter said it’s soemthing about the space that doesn’t really make it a very enjoyable place to go and drink.
I rember going when they first opened and we all thoght nice bar but a little too expensive for what it is - having said tha i noticed on my first trip to The Grove last Friday their prices are quite high for a pub (good chips though!)
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March 16th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Only went there for the first time two weeks ago. Lots of charlie going on and no real ale. Not really my scene but good to see people having a good time. Everyone piled out to watch the lunar eclipse.. What is about drugs and astronomy?
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March 16th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
Dispensary. Too small, wrong corner. It is a real shame - the owner was really committed to doing a good job.
ON that note I was trying to do a good job on Six Nations for you sports fanatics but got a couple of things wrong: times:
Italy v Ireland 1300-1520 (1p.m - 3.20pm)
France v Scotland 1520-1720 (3.20pm - 5.20pm)
UNFORTUNATELY SADLY we can’t show the England vs Wales from 1520 - 1720 because we’re closed for a PRIVATE party from 6pm. Frank Zappa’s playing live tomorrow night. Well, The Brute Chorus is and the lead singer looks like Frank Zappa but better looking.
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