Whine of The Times
Written by Peter | Filed under Eating & Drinking
Another ‘review’ of the Church Street Hotel, this time in The Times.
Best thing: Breakfast. Worst thing: Neighbourhood.
No mention, of course, of the nearby Edwardian splendour of Camberwell Grove, or the South London Gallery; that would ruin the agenda. Well, Martin Fletcher, you can stick your warm goats’ cheese on crostini
up your arse, and your sneering reference to multicultural South London… [where] finding quality is harder
with it.
May 25th, 2007
I knew there was a reason I never read The Times. The narrowest broadsheet in England.
Perhaps we should start a campaign to boycott that paper, like Liverpool did to the Sun (I think). Hit them where it hurts.
Come along, come along. It’s a good write-up. The Times is a good paper. It’s no use pretending that SE5 is Bath Spa. Camberwell is not Kansas. “This is not Kansas,” we can safely say, so to speak, every day.
Well done the brothers.
it’s a good write up — agreed.
however, I get the feeling that even if the journo was frogmarched up the grove, for a coffee in the gallery, along to the Castle for some oysters and to see the great jazz band playing last night, to the Dark Horse for supper… even if they had been shown all of that then they still would have written that Camberwell was a hell hole.
And whilst I do quite enjoy being ‘in’ on the secret, I also do want our local businesses to thrive. As a local resident I can do all I can to support the greengrocer and the local bars, but a hotel relies almost entirely on external perceptions, which a small minded national newspaper journo can sway.
I’m with Dagmar on this.
…But what intrigues is that the piece is predicated on the reviewer being a ‘mystery guest’. But how can that be so if the hotel isn’t open yet and presumably only putting up journos for pre-publicity?
Or maybe it is open but certainly no indication from the website.
Yes, thank you, Merrick, precisely, precisamente! Molto bene! Camberwell is the sort of place where people use the word “predicated”. My point exactly. Viva! Viva Camberwell! If there is gunshot here, it is because we are a frontier town, a crossroads, as meeting place, not Norbury or Norwood. Arriba!
I am just proud to live here and I hate ‘labels’ that reinforce old stereotypes. You have to be open to change in order to see it.
Yep I agree Camberwell is special but by the article he doesnt seem to have a clue about the area. Went passed the hotel on Tues got a price list yep they are open. Arriba Arriba. Whats the web address anyone?
“The brothers consider Camberwell to be an up-and-coming area and hope to attract customers from the Oval, Camberwell College of Arts, affluent Dulwich, Brixton’s music venues and Vauxhall’s gay scene. It is a bold gamble.”
I set The Sun and Doves up in 1995 on exactly the same grounds. Camberwell is a tough cookie business.
I’m not pretending the things he mentions don’t exist here, but there’s no attempt at balance. He has his agenda, he’s sticking to it.
The Church Street Hotel website has had a facelift since I last visited it. There are now pictures of the rooms and communal areas, etc. It looks good and I wish the owners the best with their venture. Given how close Camberwell is to Town, it has a chance of working (provided their supply of imported burmese berries for the breakfast table doesn’t dry up!) The article is a bit harsh on our neighbourhood, yes, I agree.
I left a comment (where it says “Have Your Say”), but as far as I can see it hasn’t been posted on the website yet. Maybe my remarks have been censored.
The article says “Martin Fletcher paid £119.99 …”. I wonder if he did. The hotel manifestly isn’t open yet. I suspect he was just having a freebie.
Something serious has happened on Camberwell New Road AGAIN; continuous sirens and buses stacked end-to-end as I type.
From my perspective here, I find it difficult to accuse the journalist of exaggeration, although we all live in micro-communities. It could just be the product of what seems to be a general preference for a quarter percent decrease in the rate of borrowing to a one quartile decrease in violent crime, electorally speaking.
Good luck to the bros., and for that matter Mark.
Yes, that’s one cool website. Funny, I’m sure it wasn’t like that this morning…just a holding page.
Still doesn’t say whether it’s actually open though…
I’d like to make a booking soon as I’m treating some mates to a weekend in Camberwell on account of a birthday celebration.
(second prize, two weekends in Camberwell (;-)
God I really hope it works out for them — they do seem to have gone balls out with it.
I’ve only just looked at the website. The rooms look fabulous. Not necessarily my taste — I don’t really care for the crucifixes — but done with real flair.
The Guardian praised the hotel so it’s no surprise the Times — based in one of the least attractive locations of London, where a 10 minute walk takes you to the Wapping Pizza Express, the highlight of local eating — sees fit to rubbish multicultural South London.
A couple of minutes ago I found two comments below the Times article, both from local people defending Camberwell, although neither from me. Now they’ve gone. Bizarre.
I said I thought the article was offensive, by the way.
Yep, I just left a comment defending camberwell … don’t expect it to get published though. However I do know (or rather, have met once) a sub editor on the Times who’s a friend of a friend — so I might have a word as I’m seeing the friend soon …
This is the first time i have posted on this site,have read it for ages though,its really good.I agree with the Duke, I think what the brothers are doing is a good move for Camberwell and can only be for the better.Overall I thought the review was positive.Once they get the tapas bar up and running so that the patrons dont have to run the gauntlet of “noisy junctions,winos etc it will be even better although the locale must surely offer the most varied choice of options to eat in south London. A boutique hotel in Camberwell,who would have envisaged that a year ago?
my comment is still there… it took about 8 hours to appear though, as all comments are moderated individually. I am sure that they will get around to posting yours eventually…
there has been a big incident on the camberwell new road, hence loads of traffic. two bodies covered in blankets.
from the black sheep end of the cordon, you could see what appeared to be one body in the road covered with a red blanket and another was on the pavement. there were no obvious signs of a car accident, but there was a vehicle that looked like it was partially on the kerb / in someones driveway.
looked pretty shocking whatever has happened.
The article does what we need it to do. It raises the profile of the hotel but implies it’s too rough (their opinion) or too cool (my opinion) for their readership. It’s brilliant that we are getting so much coverage. The heightened profile will attract interest but the pitch of the article will ensure it is enlightened interest. It wouldn’t serve anyone if the Times missold the hotel to late middle aged reactionary Tory pillocks.
It is true that there are houses on Camberwell Grove that are Murdoch himself could barely afford but they are hardly going to fling open their doors for guests of the Church St Hotel.
Even people on here have admitted to feeling too intimidated to try the yam at 4T4. How do you think a pair of 60 year old city breakers from Lincoln would react? That doesn’t detract from the ‘lip-smacking’ quality of the African cuisine on offer. It merely adds to the exclusivity of the experience.
Screw News International. They need stories about the inner-city zeitgeist we are living. We need exposure. The Radio boys are going to coin it in. You can’t live in Camberwell without having a fairly thick skin.
If they liked it here we wouldn’t. Eventually that may be the case but for now I’m looking forward to my next foray into the no-go area in which we live, safe in the knowledge that I won’t bump into Robert Thompson.
The incident on Camberwell New Road appears to have been a car accident.
http://www.injurywatch.co.uk/inbound/woman-dies-after-car-mounts-kerb-following-collision-with-second-vehicle-27571014/
We had lunch in Streatham yesterday, which makes Camberwell feel like Paris, Nice, New York, Los Angeles, Rome, Milan, Barcelona, Madrid, Prague, Bath, Harrogate…
I paricularly like the Harrogate bit
That is severe, sg. You’d expect to be able to walk your dog and not get involved with motorists’ business, let alone killed.
You have to be good to drive a BMW. They are not for kids.
After the pleasures of rural Wiltshire this weekend I return to sunny Camberwell and find a terrible accident on the New Road (which according to the Clarendon Terrace Society http://www.clarendonterrace.co.uk is the longest Georgian Road in England). The report on the injurywatch website uses strangely similar language to the BBC website at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6695851.stm
In other news I see that Bonkersfest (www.bonkersfest.com) was advertised yesterday in the Guardian Guide as happening that day (ie 26 May) whilst in the main paper there was a corrections and clarifications column item giving the correct date (2 June) — how mad is that? (If you’ll excuse the pun)
The 99p shop in Butterfly Walk is selling submarines. They are in silver plastic, just over a foot long and look like a cross between a fish and a lady’s sex toy. They require one AA battery. The subs will certainly give the fishermen on Burgess Park lake a shock as they buzz into view.
They have a brand name called Kangke, are called “SECRET MISSION SPY SUBMARINE” and are sold in this country by that mysterious company in Daventry, with just a PO Box number and postcode, who seem to supply everything sold in Camberwell.
A search reveals that Kangke is a remote village in Taiwan where aborigines speak an unrecognised dialect that has traces of Japanese from the occupation.
Taiwan, Daventry … what starts out as a bit of fun soon feels like something from The Ipcress File.
The long onward march of Mao’s descendants has far reaching consequences.
Accoridng to this BBC report — http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6697619.stm
the driver will be charged on Monday (preumably today) charged with death by dangerous driving, and failing to have a driving licence, MOT for the car and insurance
horrific.
undocumented and uninsured drivers who kill should be charged with murderIMHO.
just one of my many furious intolerances.
Mishmash.
I’m with you on that Mishmash. I also think that possesion of an unlicensed firearm should be a charge of attepted murder, as that’s the only logical reason anyone could have for possesing such an object.
Olly, I would have completely agreed with you about that until a week ago when I was listening to Law in Action (?) on Radio 4. When judges were argueing about the need for them to always have discretion in sentencing and not to have minumum sentences imposed on them by the Home Offfice, thus ruling out any mitigating circumstances. They were discussing specifically firearms offences. I immediately thought to myself, ‘exactly what mitigating circumstances can there posssibly be for carrying a firearm?’. Spookily, my unspoken thoughts were then answered by the judge who gave the example of a grandfather who had given his teenage grandson his rusty old service revolver to take to a local antique shop for valuation. The judge in question apparently had no choice but to bang the lad up for 5 years. Not sure if this was a real or hypothetical case but you could envisage it happening.
Isn’t that a case of police stupidy in charging the lad in the first place? They would have known the minimum sentancing requirements and as such should have been more sensible in charging him.
There is a fundamental difference between someone carrying a rusty, old wartime pistol and some chavvy little gangsta pimp-rolling about with a .45 tucked into his underpants.
A car is a hell of a weapon. Causing death by dangerous driving is a hell of a charge.
The 99p shop has 1lb jars of Indian honey, which is incredibly cheap. Very flavoursome the honey is, too. The 99p olive oil is made of olive oil (i.e. not cold-pressed extra-virgin) and pomace, which is olive skins, seeds and stalks.
Cypressa (Greek) extra virgin oliver oil in Somerfield is exceptional value at £3.99 for a litre. It is cold-pressed i.e. not chemically or in any other way extracted. A massive 60% of Greek cultivated land is olive groves. Spain is a bigger producer but the Greek extra virgin oil contains wisdom, knowledge, civilisation, naturally beautiful proportions and satisfying metaphors.
Is it legal to sell honey by the pound?
Call in Trading Standards, I say!
(But just let me pop down there first…)
Have they got the wooden coat hangers back in yet? Those were genius. (I think you got 6 for 99p)
Merrick/Olly
Arguments about crime and punishment in the old UK never seem to have got much further than boo/hurray ethics; a failing mostly caused by the political and media soundbite culture.
But it’s important to remember that police arrest and charge; the CPS prosecutes; juries decide verdicts; and judges sentence.
If someone gets inappropriately banged up for five years because of a mandatory sentencing policy, then the judges have cause to feel ignored; but it doesn’t mean the conviction is a wrong ‘un.
I had a lot of faith in the justice system until I was called for jury service [something I took very seriously as my public duty];the Court Service, I am afraid to tell you, is undermined by the most appaling lack of professional standards I have ever encountered. On your tax dollar too…
Drew Mishmash
I too was recently disillusioned by the justice system. The defence barrister could hardly have been less enthusiastic, to the point of depression. I believe he was thoroughly convinced of his client’s guilt.
We the jury did not convict, primarily due to a lack of CCTV evidence. Still, we made it out before the rush hour home, a consideration which I know was foremost in the minds of many.
It couldn’t be murder, because you need to show intent, but one possible way to get a driver on manslaughter would be to lower the speed limit on CNR to 20mph, and put up accident blackspot signs or silhouettes. That way I believe the CPS would only have to show that the driver was reckless as to causing serious injury, if he broke 30 mph.
It would certainly be in the public interest for them to try this one out, but you’d need a cyclist jury — a real possibility in London.
With regard to the horrific accident which killed a Grandmother and dog, they bailed him to return on such and such a date.
Do they honestly think he will still be in the country at that time?
With a name like that he will no doubt have two passports and will leg it thru Heathrow asap.
No insurance, no licence, no f**k all.
I will, if he crosses my path do serious damage to his entire life.
On another note, not related. What happened to global warming this weekend? I worked and it was bloody freezing leaving on Monday, and put the heating on on Monday after my return. Global warming is tosh.
Dear Mrs T
I think your time might be better spent trying to remember how your first name is spelt.
We,ve been thru this in another post.
I don,t use THAT womans.
Keep up!
…and BTW these comments should be answered seriously!
… no they shouldn’t. The first is a racist assumption, the second is a fundamental misunderstanding of science.
To assume that he won’t turn up to his hearing because he is (probably) black and an immigrant is very dim. However, someone who drives around without insurance or licence is unlikely to fulfill his his bail-related resposibilities.
On another topic: there is a buzzing sound in my bathroom. I cannot locate is origin. What do YOU think it is? Prize for anyone who correctly identifies it.*
*As this is a (largely) anonymous website it may be difficult to actually bestow a prize on the winner or winners.
Hi Oliver
it’s one of the governments new PFI spy security drones watching you have a wee-wee.
it’s being operated by whitehall favourites capita services; ergo it is 300 miles off course and making victims of the innocent.
i can let you have a second hand katyuska if you want…
drew
a dying fly
The driver’s name is Jailing (ironic!) Bao, which presumably makes him of Asian origin; doesn’t mean he is an immigrant, however.
And the buzzing? Perhaps an ‘internal massager’ has fallen behind the bathroom cabinet?
or an electronic toothbrush?
Hi Oliver
You leave us with few scientific bases for conjecture.
Can anyone else hear the sound? It could be the onset of potamophobia, physically manifesting itself as a tremolo on the eardrum.
@Oliver — heating pipes expanding and rubbing against a joist?
Although that may be more a creaking noise than a buzzing (i should know, upstairs’ creaks extremely loudly everytime the central heating hot water pump goes — every 2 minutes. gaaah!!)
or have you only just noticed you have an extractor fan?
A dodgy electrical connection, which in a bathroom is deadly.
Peter Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
… no they shouldn’t. The first is a racist assumption, the second is a fundamental misunderstanding of science.
So a statement that you don’t agree with doesn’t deserve an answer?
Oliver Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 8:49 am
To assume that he won’t turn up to his hearing because he is (probably) black and an immigrant is very dim. However, someone who drives around without insurance or licence is unlikely to fulfill his his bail-related resposibilities.
I didn’t say he was black.
City Office Audio is closing
They are selling everything off cheap.
Sad to see them go.
There’s great music on at S&D on Sunday at 8pm: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesunanddoves/523110429/ and an organic fruit n veg and lovely bread from 10am –3pm on the forecourt. They almost got rained out last Sunday poor people.
Dear Mrs T — posting 55
You imply that you think he’s black. Stop playing games. When Oliver tries to answer your point (as you ask us all to do), your response is caricature and playing dumb.
You share many characteristics with your nom de plume.
i go away for a little while and look what happens!
hi margret, i’m squidder. would like to wrestle?
It’s not that I don’t agree with you, Iron Lady, it’s that you are wrong.
First you made the assumption that someone was likely to be an immigrant with two passports who would flee the country, based on the fact they don’t have an Anglo-Saxon name. It could turn out that they are and do just that, but basing it on someone’s name is patently wrong. I have plenty of friends, acquaintances and colleagues who don’t have common British names, as they are the children of immigrants. But they were born here and are English.
Second, you said that global warming is a myth because it was cold and rained over the weekend. Global warming doesn’t mean Britain becomes Mediterranean, it means the overall temperature of the globe is increasing, which means some parts see extreme fluctuations of temperature and leads to unseasonal weather. Ironically, global warming could lead to the collapse of the gulf stream which brings warm air and water up to Northern Europe, making the weather here extremely cold.
Now, I get that you are here trolling, with your provocative name and opinions. But the problem is, nobody likes a troll.
Spot on Peter.
I went to Nunhead Cemetery open day with the family a couple of weekends ago. I was amazed by the names on the graves from Victorian times. Like John and Hannah Nolloth of Camberwell:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/508557887/
Who cares what one of Murdoch’s little helpers thinks anyway?
The chap’s name is Vietnamese I think, but asinine inference I agree. The courts take a view on likelihood of absconding before offering bail, which I guess they have done in this case. Nunhead Cemetery Open day rather odd I thought, albeit in a splendid setting. A Friends of the Earth man dressed as a very scary polar bear and middle aged slightly porky goths who had driven there in a hearse. You don’t get that in SE5. I think it’s quite amusing, if indeed scientifically illiterate, to argue that, because it’s cold, global warming is a myth. The argument from single event usually runs the opposite way (see eg The Indie passim).
John and Hannah Nolloth of Greater East Dulwich.
http://www.se5forum.org/forum/index.php/topic,443.0.html
it’s Bonkersfest time again tomorrow then.
the guys were putting the tents up as me and mrs squidder went by earlier.
the line up looks good:
http://www.bonkersfest.com
any bloggers going along?
Peter Says:
First you made the assumption that someone was likely to be an immigrant with two passports who would flee the country, based on the fact they don’t have an Anglo-Saxon name. It could turn out that they are and do just that, but basing it on someone’s name is patently wrong. I have plenty of friends, acquaintances and colleagues who don’t have common British names, as they are the children of immigrants. But they were born here and are English.
Highly unlikely, but I would like to be proved wrong.
Peter also said…
Second, you said that global warming is a myth
What I actually said was “Global warming is tosh”
Peter also said…
Ironically, global warming could lead to the collapse of the gulf stream which brings warm air and water up to Northern Europe, making the weather here extremely cold.
Agreed..
Peter also said…
Now, I get that you are here trolling, with your provocative name and opinions. But the problem is, nobody likes a troll.
I shall forthwith change my sign on name. It’s bloody brilliant!!
‘Bonkers Fest’ tomorrow on the green.
Have to work AM but will be there.
I am an expatriate who has lived in the United States for almost thirty years. This past ten years have been a time of looking back at Britain with regret and concern.
Those who advocate ‘open borders’ (and I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why they do) do play the racism card and label racism as an abnormality. For my part, absolutely unconditional immigration is a bigger abnormality.
What society would not wish to control the numbers for which it provides services? What society would not want to prohibit the workshy and criminal from adding to its burden? What society would not want to impose a minimum set of conditions (respect our laws, be able to understand our language) on those who wish to come in?
Racism is not the worst thing that a society can be guilty of. Madness — as typified by unconditional immigration — may be for it is a form of societal suicide.
Peter said…
Second, you said that global warming is a myth because it was cold and rained over the weekend. Global warming doesn’t mean Britain becomes Mediterranean, it means the overall temperature of the globe is increasing, which means some parts see extreme fluctuations of temperature and leads to unseasonal weather. Ironically, global warming could lead to the collapse of the gulf stream which brings warm air and water up to Northern Europe, making the weather here extremely cold.
What qualifications do you have to quote these assumptions?
Wake up Maggie I think I’ve got something to say to you. Sometimes it takes a ‘troll’ to get people talking. I don’t think you should give up just yet.
Foxy Al did the best with his anti-tramp rant. My Gordon Gecko got up Squidder’s nose and Buckovski999 seems to upset himself.
Don’t change your name just work harder at your posts. Racism will be met with instant dismissal and global warming has been done to death.
@ maggie…and try to work harder at your spelling or drink less grog before posting.
Christine’s an alter ego for marget fatcher then. brilliant, what a cunning ruse.
any bloggers venturing down to bonkersfest… come say hi, i’ll be there for most of the day. probably wearing a red M(A)D Pride t-shirt and stewarding or drinking beer or something.
might come down to bonkersfest — have to spend most of the day singing at RFH.
which isn’t the burden i make out — i need the practice i promise you.
suffice to say the south bank beethoven 9 next sunday evening will be one to remember.
drew mishmash
Hmmm… I wasn’t the one who brought up the subject, yet I am the one being asked to provide qualification to discuss it. I would suggest that as 169 of the world’s nations have signed up to a treaty to combat global warming, the burden of proof is on you to provide qualification that it is a myth.
Peter’s right as usual. He needs no qualification. He’s erudite and besides, it’s common sense, we’ve been racing (as a race) this way for a few generations more than is healthy.
More upbeat, realistic?, review in the Financial Times: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/99b7e98e-10a7-11dc-96d3-000b5df10621.html
They’re doing a really good job of it at the Church Street Hotel…
I like the FT — no nonsense down to earth language
Our ‘Pooter has been down these last few days but I am now shovelling money into it and into Richard Virgin’s pocket, whatisname, Branston.
I thought Maigret was doing OK, he was angry like all of us that someone comes into our parish, manor, patch, with a lethal weapon and terminates a grandmother as he pertinently points out and her dog. It’s the killing of the dog that gives an idea of how much something had gone wrong for a nearly-ton car to mount the pavement. You think, “BMW, 20-year-old male” you think oh dear.
“Jailing Bao, the judge said…” In the effort to reduce methane, some energy saved here.
I was in Grove Park cemetery, Eltham, recently, contemplating life and death, very peaceful there because the recumbents sleep so soundly. The plants thrive, burgeon, indirectly, on the mineral rich diets of the occupants. You could make a poem from the names on the headstones.
Ernest Harold Pain
Garfield Anthony South
Charles Thomas Wren
Henry Victor Board
Thomas William Supple
Thomas George Shave
James Joseph Cope
Albert Edward Earwaker
Charles Mark Cook
Alred William Baron
William Charles Frederick Jinks
Stanley Bird
Arthur Leonard Cambridge
George James Quodling
Romalnd John Bull
Alfred William George Poett
Whipped open the curtains this morning and no sign of the mayhem of last evening.
Those guy’s must have worked thru the night to dis-assemble and take that lot away.
Well done to them!
Peter Says:
Hmmm… I wasn’t the one who brought up the subject, yet I am the one being asked to provide qualification to discuss it. I would suggest that as 169 of the world’s nations have signed up to a treaty to combat global warming, the burden of proof is on you to provide qualification that it is a myth.
Wake up, it’s just an excuse for a tax grab.
Ask Flash Gordon.
I was a landscape gardener for a number of years up to 1994. Even then, spending most of the year outdoors, it was already plain to see climate change was happening.
Taxes will have to rise steadily anyway to pay for PFI, bailing out such projects as British Energy and paying guaranteed profits.
Climate change denial is about not wanting to change your lifestyle one whit, but when Republican American has acknowledged it, the only option for such individuals is to argue that it is now too late to avoid catastrophic climate change, ergo do nothing.
This would involve an ironic, but necessary, change from no-nonsense self-styled empiricist to high priest of doom.
Bonkers fest was great on the Green yesterday. It showed Camberwell at its best — diverse, welcoming, non judgemental, slightly strange but all good fun.
I was sad to see that the doors and windows of the Old Dispensary have been boarded up — I hope this doesnt mean it earmarked for demolition.
Was excellent– anyone got anything on Flickr yet?
Check out this piano. It’s in Loughborough Junction and it’s a bargain.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200116493476
Tell me, Alan, is that YOUR piano, and are you hawking it on here in order to push the price up?
I live in Allendale Close. That piano is in the corridor of a flat 30m from Lo J station.
It belongs to my creator’s cousin.
He bought it on e-bay for £60, paid £230 to get it delivered to his flat only to find that they couldn’t get it up the stairs.
Now, four months later, their washing machine has broken and the only way they can replace it is if they clear the piano out of the ground floor corridor.
The Creator’s cousin can’t bring himself to destroy the piano so he is givig it away for 99p on ebay.
It will be a bargain but only if it’s bought locally and hence the Creator has instructed me to put links to his auction on the local forums where I exist.
Feel free ro remove it if you class it as spam Big Man but I think the tale merits the plug.
I wouldn’t have removed it even if it were yours, I just thought we might have found out your real name.
You found out the Creator’s cousin’s real name.
Alan Dale is my real name.
Around Hill and Down Dale
the Creator’s cousin’s piano’s for sale
It is heartening that somebody bought an acoustic piano, rather than a Clavinova, in our area. The architectural trend round here is after all towards a society composed of a series of secure and bland-looking residential pods with room only for eating, sleeping, showering and Sky TV.
Although I don’t remember the last time I saw a piano in a pub, restaurant or even a church in SE5…
I am interested in Christine’s views about Camberwell (post 67 above). Where were/are you in the States? There was an interesting programme last night on BBC4 about the regeneration of Manhattan, which was pertinent to Camberwell. They got rid of the perceived/felt fear first. Then new immigrants came which meant there were eyes and ears everywhere e.g. Koreans traders on street corners 24 hours a day. More people bring up their nippers there in the city now rather than move out to the suburbs. Manhattan has lost some soul but has fewer deaths.