The Montpelier of England
Written by Peter | Filed under Development, History
The Grove, which is one of the principal ornaments of the neighbourhood, is a delightfully embowered walk, nearly half a mile in length, having a gradual ascent from Peckham Road. The view from the summit is extensive, rural and picturesque… The air around here is genial and invigorating: Dr Lettsom, the celebrated physician and botanist, used to designate this place and its immediate neighbourhood as the Montpelier of England.
Pigot’s New Commercial Directory for 1823–1824
I found this description of Camberwell Grove in Gillian Tindall’s The House by the Thames, which is a fascinating history of Bankside and Southwark. I thought it rather timely with the recent kerfuffle about the opening of the railway bridge.
The celebrated physician and botanist’s name lives on in the area in the gated gardens and a housing estate.
The book goes on to say:
By the later part of the nineteenth century the whole district was built up, an embodiment of the phrase ‘urban sprawl’, becoming more crowded and insalubrious as rows of smaller houses were squeezed in between the existing streets.
So it’s not just post-war planning which has done for the area.
I went to the Museum of London at the weekend, and they have a pretty extensive array of local history books. Only one on Southwark, however, and that one featured no mention of Camberwell. Since Wordsworth shut down, where are we to find books on local history?
Peter — have you tried this? http://www.southwark.gov.uk/DiscoverSouthwark/LocalHistoryLibrary/
And for Lambeth History there’s the archives at the Minet Library. As for books that you can take away and keen, well, I did see some about Southwark for sale in the gallery at Southwark park, hopefully they mention Camberwell.
and I do realise you weren’t actually asking that question, yes more books please.
So is Montpelier correctly spelt with one ‘l’ in this case?
I thought the new pub in Bellenden had spelt the name wrong but it seems you spell it the same way…
I believe it only has a double-l in France; the other Montpeliers worldwide have just the one.
I used to live in Montpelier in Bristol, which also had a pub called the Montpelier. I’ve never been to the Montpelier pub in Camberwell.
Interesting, but surely to call something the Montpelier of England one is comapring it to Montpellier in France?
I suppose it just an English spelling of a French word a bit like Brittany instead of Bretagne (sp?).
The Montpelier is in Peckham nr Bellenden. Nr Petitou –Choumert Grove perhaps? It’s pretty good. Not overly busy but pleasant. They do that weird waitress service for drinks like in the Dark Horse but that’s fine once you acclimatise.
Apparenlty the food is good..
I’ve seen books of local history on sale in local libraries in the past. The one most closely focussed on Camberwell, The Story of Camberwell, is by Mary Boast, who is a former Southwark librarian. It is published by Southwark Council — or was, I don’t know if it’s still in print. Wordsworth used to have a good selection of local history books.
Went to Caravaggio for lunch today. It’s really nice (a bit too nice for Camberwell possibly). They’ve a reasonably large dinning area at the back which looks great (nice beamed ceiling). I’m going to try and go back for dinner one night to see what the ‘proper’ menu is like. Really pleased to have a decent italian restaurant / cafe on Church Street.
Good news for Camberwell, a genuine new asset: Cowling and Wilcox, art, stationery and graphic materials suppliers just opened up south London’s largest such store on Orpheus Street (down the side of post office on Denmark Hill); a glimmer of what could be.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/1908227969/
An art supplies shop and a nice new cafe; my gosh, we’re getting so boho.
I welcome these new businesses to SoGreen Camberwell.
They will prosper, as there’s plenty of money to spend here, and absolutely no shortage, neither of moneyed upwardly-mobile residents nor of made-money individuals.
It’s just that too much of it is being spent outside the area. More quality-minded and niche businesses like these, combined with more local pedestrianisation and cycling facilities, could help this to change.
I can’t bear this SoGreen nonsense.
It’s not Manhattan.
Peter — The Minet Library in Myatt’s Field is a good place to find books on local history which is Lambeth and also Newington Library on Walworth Road houses a selection of books on Southwark too…I think you can make an appointment to look through their archive too…
I am torn Buk. I see the need for distinction as there are no problems in South Camerwell that compare to those in the North but I don’t like the names chosen.
SoGreen is a needless NY reference and NEW is misleading because these areas aren’t new.
Furthermore, the inclusion of the Green in South Camberwell is unecessary as it’s got it’s own problems that are distinct from the rest of the SoGreen area.
That said until anyone comes up with a better idea then I am happy to stick with these..
I bet most people know of the old, oxidised Bulgarian Vauxhall Belmont in Bushey Hill Road. It belongs to a charming Bulgarian family who were all decked out for a wedding the other day. The car is right-hand drive — it’s good to know that a British assembly plant built this booted Astra in exchange for Bulgarian dinars before the plant was shipped to Daeoo in Korea.
However, has anyone seen the Hungarian, lhd Lada 2105 in parallel Talfourd Road? What a beauty, orange with white sports kit.
At the bottom of Talfourd by the Fire Station there is a section of plank-levelled concrete pavement over which someone cycled whilst the concrete was still wet — the tyres are thin, pre-mountain-bike, must be 1970s.
By contrast, at the bottom of Bushey Hill there is a large, bushy tree behind a brick wall covered in red berries and bristling with whistling robins.
Thus it is that our area never ceases to surprise with its lesson-bearing dichotomies.
Seeing as you’re on the subject of vehicles, Dagmar, I’ve only just seen your PS to a post near the end of the previous thread in praise my Bedford camper van. I fairly blushed with pride.
Thanks again for those who put me onto Evolution Autos. They tweaked a series of long-standing mechanical gripes and the van drives like a dream again. It still sounds like a tractor, mind.
Alan, agreed that Camberwell Green has a lot of issues that don’t relate to South Camberwell. I see it as North/East/South and West Camberwell.
Bukowski
My take is that Denmark Road and Myatts Fields belong to West Camberwell, taking Camberwell Road as our northern compass.
Alan
The New Forest, Camberwell New Road, Oxford’s New College (founded 1379) and King’s College Hospital’s own New Building (opened in 1965) all have varying degrees of vintage.
I also feel that NEW conveys the virgin territory aspect of this area as valiant residents fight on a very real “front” for a minimal quality of life, in circumstances too dire for any elected politician in the area to recognise in full. This contrasts usefully, as agreed, with the genteel area surrounding the Phoenix and Canning.
So do you agree that there is no sense in packaging the South and the Green together?
I worry about these splits anyway.
Whilst I understand that Reg is trying to single out the problem areas in order to have those problems addressed I think it is more likely that you will enable those in other areas to wash their hands of Camberwell.
They will instead embrace Denmark Hill, East Dulwich, Camberwell Grove, Bellenden, or wherever else their nearest desirable area may be..
What does it matter? No one is doing anything or listening to idle chatter here. No one that will do anything.
Luckily, I’m chuffed about the new Italian and art store. Not because of but in spite of any community group Camberwell is showing some signs of improving. The lesson appears to be sit back and wait. All this other idle chatter is nothing more than academic. By the way, I don’t have a car and we don’t want one. But all this talk about evil cars sounds a bit loopy and won’t go anywhere. How ’bout stopping the guys who piss on our door?
Whisper it — this is not a community group. It is a hub for idle chatter.
Anyway on with the quest. What can we say on here in the vain hope that it might make a difference?
People have relocated on the back of idle chatter so keep it positive..
Great Italian restaurant! Another one. We’ve got it all round here. Shame there are so many private cars though..
Actually JohnnyM, many different people and organisations are doing things in SE5, but the results are incremental. Incidentally, that is also the main challenge in addressing climate change. The fact that our Thatcher’s children brains are conditioned to crave immediate results and abrupt improvements, like the profits sometimes made on How to be a Property Developer.
So most of you will simply be conditioned to reject incremental improvements. Not necessarily your fault, but part of the psyche of the age in which we live.
As for “evil cars” — I’ve dealt with this elsewhere. Never said it. One way to stop the pissers is to introduce a shame culture. Encourage people to take pictures and leggit; they can’t attack you with trousers round t’ankles.
Alan, I agree with you — idle chatter can topple governments and make kings.
my main aim with the division is to prevent people saying, as several have done on this blog, that there are no serious problems in Camberwell, when they are obviously referring specifically to SoGreen Camberwell.
I think the Green belongs more to the South, as it is fundamentally a place made safe by sheer numbers of people. It does not face the challenges of the far more desolate, serious crime-ridden and strategically neglected areas in NEW Camberwell.
How about Established Camberwell and Up-and-coming Camberwell?
On an up note a house on our street sold for an amount that we could match and it shocked me! Wow! We may get out of here quicker than I thought! We were planning to DIY some but it seems developers want them as is so they can, as is the case with the house that just sold, turn them into studio flat/bedsits.
Thinking of selling up, holding tight, renting cheap then buying again next summer in a place we actually can enjoy. Alan, what’s the verdict?
i’m pleased about the art store, but there was something similar on camberwell new road until fairly recently which closed down. although i suspect no one really noticed it was there.
Some of my friends are looking to rent a 4 bedroom house/ flat in ‘the nice bit’ of Camberwell, i.e Camberwell Grove / near Denmark Hill station. Don’t suppose anyone knows of anything? Just thought it worth a try.
Looking forward to trying out Caravaggio — what do they do?
By all means move somewhere you prefer but banking on a short term dip in house prices is a risky gamble.
If it pays off though you’ll be quids in.
If it doesn’t then next summer you won’t be able to afford your old house.
Takes big balls…In retrospect you’ll be a genius or a fool.
As for the outlook, my own opinion is that whatever happens nationally, Camberwell is solid gold…
Sterling denominated at that.
Another brilliant thing about the Camberwell area — the Peckham Multiplex has surely the cheapest cinema prices in London — i went there to see Elizabeth yesterday for the grand price of £1.50 (it being 241 Orange Wednesday) and althoguh not Curzon Soho it was a perfectly acceptable experience for the price.
The Peckham Multiplex are currently £2.99 for all tickets and anytime of the week. Pretty good, especially if you’re not on Orange to take advantage of Orange Wednesdays.
In the name of fairness, I tried Peckham. It’s a worse dump than Camberwell. Reputations are earned. Wear a flack jacket.
Usually the Multiplex is great, but it can be pretty trying on weekends. We went on Saturday and a group of about 20 kids entered the screen a couple of minutes before it started, and proceeded to make so much commotion we had to leave.
I’m not a cinema purist who demands silence, and I give a lot of licence to kids as I know they’re pretty boisterous by nature. But 15 minutes of talking, switching seats, going in & out, shining mobiles at each other, etc, was too much.
We asked the cashiers if they would let us watch another film instead, but the ones we wanted to watch had already started. Instead we got our money back, and went home disappointed. We won’t be going back at peak time again. It’s still a good cinema at a great price, but choose your time and film carefully.
Yes i only go to Peckham to see films i am sure would generally be unappealing to most noisy kids.
On the other hand it think it is great that the noisy Peckham kids can go to the cinema at Peckham — the £8 that a lot of places charge these days is a lot of money for many people that live round here (including me unless i really really want to see the film)
At the risk of restarting the same arguement .…
JohnnyM — i think you are being unfair to Peckham — i spent a very happy 2 years living near Peckham Common.
Yes it has problems but i think you find in the main they are problems that almost every inner city area in London has — i have friends who live in Wood Green, Clapton, Catford, Battersea, Willesden, Kings Cross, Kilburn, Croyden, Finsbury Park, Vauxhall, Tooting as well as Camberwell and Peckham and many other places in London and to a certain extent we all experience many of the issues and problems we discuss here, they are not unique to Camberwell and Peckham at all.
I’m not saying we should put up with bad behaviour and social neglect or believe that is what Inner City living is all about but they are definitely not unique to this area by any means.
We went to see a Nicholas Cage film at the Ritzy — a group of Coldharbour rastas came in to the row behind and starting smoking “weed” or whatever the local taxonomy is and put their feet up next to our heads.
Another time, at the Peckham Multiplex someone was talking on his mobile phone, loudly enough to drown out large sections of dialogue.
I wonder what would happen in a Camberwell cinema?
Sure they are not unique to Peckham and Camberwell but things are far worse here/there than most other places. It is true. Sorry. It’s not politically correct ot say so but it is true. Ride the 36 or 436 of a weekend. It’s terrifying.
Johnny i think you terror threshold must be a lot lower than mine!!
I use the 36 and 436 most weekends and used to use it everyday twice a day for my commute to work and i have always been fine!
for sheer terror i’d recommend the 29 bendy bus from Camden to Wood Green via Tottenham at 4am — there’s fun bus — but then again my friend used it for years to go back to her place in Wood Green alone at all sorts of hours and was fine.
JohnnyM, without meaning to be excessively blunt, you’re talking bollocks.
Spare us the ‘politically correct’ nonsense. The phrase is more or less meaningless these days and has been appropriated by too many people who use it as a convenient veil for their own prejudices. Saying Camberwell and Peckham are ‘far worse’ than most other parts of London isn’t being un-PC, it’s just being over-simplistic and a touch ignorant.
This is somewhat off the topic, but reading newspaper coverage in the past few days about the storm over a would-be Tory MP’s evocation of Enoch Powell — especially internet readers’ responses to this — I started thinking too many people in Britain spend their time living in fear and mistrust these days. I don’t wish to sounds naive, and I’m as aware as anyone I might get mugged walking home tonight, but I prefer to enjoy my home area, not live in terror of it.
I should stress that the reference to Powell is tangential, I’m not accusing anyone of racism, explicitly or implcitly.
Between 3pm and 5pm on a school weekday, the 36/436 is indeed rough. It rides, after all, along the flashpoint for teen gang violence between Peckham and Brixton, aka the New Road.
To be fair, most commuters (which describes the majority here) will not be aware just how bad things can be at these times. I guess there are some parts of Hackney, Poplar and Tower Hamlets which are just as bad.
I feel sorry for those in the retirement homes locally; they walk cowed, with bent backs, chastened by our human tolerance and understanding of the foibles of youth and the incorrigible behaviour found in pockets of poverty.
These last are certainly not part of Camberwell’s “voluntary” residential population.
Reg — you assume i have a 9–5 job
Often i will use the same buses as the school kids and concede they can be horrible
Johnny M, wear a flak jacket in Peckham — very urban chic — not a flack jacket. You’re thinking of Roberta Flack, Killing Me Softly, which not a song to do with killing — well, if you’re Shakespeare writing sonnets it is.
we live south
we can take the flak
its not all right
its not all blak
its not all great
its not all grey
we can always go away
any way
I am enjoying the reprints of Enoch Powell’s “rivers of blood” speech about the Tiber in Rome. “We must be mad,” he says and there is usually a picture of him, this crazed-looking fellow with staring eyes. I think I remember hearing him on “In the Psychiatrist’s Chair” on the radio. He began snivelling, it was uncomfortable. Maybe these were the rivers he dreaded.
If the Brunswick Bedford camper
van can regenerate, why can’t we. It is indeed a fine sight — the home-made drinks cabinet inside looks brilliant.
Also, Shakespeare was great, he lived a lot in Southwark, and he was from the West Midlands like poor old Enoch. Also Robert Dudley, Elizabeth’s lover, lucky mother.
Ha ha. My mate challenged me to post and see how long it took for the right-on champagne socialists to attack.
I read Southwark ranks now as the most violent in London according the the latest crime stats. Wonder how much Peckham and Camberwell contribute to that? And of course, we blame ourselves, not the criminals.
@ 25 Mrs Lucas. Camberwell New Road art supplies and stationery store was City Office Audio, went bust earlier this year.
What they did was good and wide ranging, I had an account there for a decade, but perhaps not specialist enough as an artist supplies and maybe too out of the way for many people to even know about it.
A shrug and ‘Internet shopping’ was the owner’s answer when I asked ‘what happened?’ before they closed finally.
I went to Harriet Harman’s celebration of 25 years as Camberwell and Peckham MP last night. Had a few scoops of House of Commons Chardonnay. And the chance to tell several local councillors what I feel / think isn’t happening the area they preside over. Their attitude generally is ‘Camberwell’s doing fine’. There are some on this blog who I think might agree with this. I don’t. I am currently outraged by what has not been happening in Camberwell, for decades.
I now plan to nag Harriet directly about it, and Tessa Jowell, instead of just saying it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/1930232485/
Nobody likes a troll, JohnnyM.
If by troll you mean people with views opposite of yours then I reckon you don’t like them. Pretty clear on that. I’ve not said anything just to get a rise. I’ve said what I think. I think you’ll find a lot more people in Camberwell feel the same way but they aren’t reflected or welcomed here.
By troll, I mean people who start their posts with a challenge.
Anyone’s views are welcomed here; doesn’t mean I’ll nod my head and agree with them.
I just find yours particularly strange; you’re scared to walk the streets or take a bus, without reason as far as I can tell. Have you been a victim of crime here? Other readers have, and they seem far less nervous than you do.
If you just want to talk about what a shithole Camberwell is, and how the people who live in it are all scum, why don’t you go ahead and start your own blog? I promise I would read it.
Popped into the New Art shop on Orpheus Street yesterday.. very good. Should serve the art students well – and they gave me a free set of brushes with my purchase.
I just hope it stays open.. the big stationers on Camberwell New Road didn’t manage to.
@46 — Eyechild. Yes, but the stationers was in NEW Camberwell, and had a bus lane outside it which was the biggest generator of revenue for motorists’ fines on the entire red route network, pro rated by length. It had a rat run (Medlar Street) turn off directly after it, carrying off potential customers in its wake. And it was opposite a massive bus garage. Short of actually coming down and bolting the shop door shut, it’s hard to see what more TfL could have done to shut them down.
Orpheus Street is in SoGreen Camberwell, where there is some free short stay parking, which at least gives it a head start.
I think it’s all down to personal experience and I think Camberwell has a public perception that is far far worse than the reality.
My boyfriend and I rented in Crystal Palace for about 2 and a half years before buying in Camberwell. We lived on Crystal Palace Park Road, which is a really lovely wide suburban street next to the park. Within 2 months of moving in we had been burgled twice. About 200 metres away from our house we were robbed by a group of kids who knocked me over and kicked me in the face and punched my 6 foot something boyfriend. We also witnessed and intervened to stop two kids who were trying to mug some poor polish student on a very desirable and leafy street around the corner from our flat. On our last night there we went for a thai at south east, a restaurant on the triangle (CP is great for restaurants) and saw someone staggering out of what was then the Puzzle pub, who had been stabbed in the back (literally) and was then hauled into an ambulance. Oh, and my boyfriends bikes got nicked twice.
I think my point is that although clearly we were very unlucky while we lived in CP (and I know plenty of people who do live there unharmed) in our experience those wide empty suburban leafy streets were actually a lot more dangerous than the scruffy but more busy streets of Camberwell.
You’ll be pleased to know that we’ve not experienced any crime since we moved to Camberwell in June 2006.
Had a wicked morning in Camberwell. Had a 90s Youtube disco with the kids at home. Got my hair cut in Head to Toe -£12. Bought a paper and read it in House with a coffee and a croissant. Went to the arches to get the car MOT’d. Went to Morph to look at furniture. No 35 to work in the City for lunch.
You don’t get more Champagne socialist than nodding furiously along to Polly Toynbee in a coffee bar/ art gallery in an aspiring area of South London. If anyone had called me that this morning I would have held my hands up.
Turns out they did. Or at least they called ‘us’ that.
I suppose buying discount retro furniture from a community service not for profit organisation is Champagne Socialist too. Especially Champagne when I sell it on ebay for a small fortune.
Good one JohnnyM. You’ve got me sussed!
Drinks cabinet? That’s news to me. I must investigate. The interior is a 70s masterpiece by the craftsmen — I’m presuming they were all men — of Autosleeper, who did the original conversion.
JohhnyM: “right-on champagne socialists”? Apologies, I didn’t realise you were meaning it all as an ironic joke. I should have noticed the cut-and-paste phrases from vintage editions of the Daily Mail. No one really uses terms like that anymore.
Really PeterW so what do you call people who purport to have left wing values but spend their time poncing about in cafes and looking for discount designer furniture?
Hypocrites maybe?
Well, Alan, there’s two issues here, I’d say.
Firstly, I think name calling in Daily Mail — or, indeed, Guardian — soundbites is essentially empty. To me, a term like ‘Champagne socialist’ (and, even more so, ‘politically correct’) has been cheapened by decades of ever-wider use. These days it seems to be applied to more or less anyone who votes to the left of the BNP and owns their own home. That was the sole purpose of my clunking irony above.
Also, I’m not sure your examples are that well chosen. What’s hypocritical about claiming to be left wing and going to a cafe? It could, for example, be locally owned and run. The ‘poncing about’ bit I can’t necessarily vouch for.
As for the designer furniture… well, again you can look at it in different ways. Of course, in many ways it’s an indulgence. But which is more ethical — spending 200 quid on one item of furniture made by a local craftsman/women or buying five items from MFI, thus enriching only their distant shareholders?
That said, there is of course plenty of hypocritical behaviour going around by people of all political persuasions.
Incidentally, I’m not seeking to present myself as some sort of left wing champion. I just think too many people hurl around essentially meaningless labels as a substitute for real thought.
Incidentally, my comments now seem to require moderation before they appear. I’m not sure if this is a new universal policy or if I’ve been personally marked down as a potential firebrand out to spread sedition through SE5. If it’s a form of probation, I hope it’s temporary. I’m much happier talking camper vans than politics.
Measured response Peter. I agree.
I only really object when people get preachy about the right on stuff that they do but turn a blind eye to their more right wing behaviour.
A bit like the whole fair trade vs food miles paradox.
@PeterW: The spam filter is being more strict at the moment as I have a huge influx of spam comments being thrown my way. For some reason, your comments are being held back for moderation and Mark Dodds’ are getting blocked automatically.
The only thing I can do is keep approving/rescuing them until the filter learns they are OK.
To give you some idea of the extent of the problem, the spam filter has trapped 750 spam comments in the last two weeks, and 51,000 since I installed it. Very rarely does one make it onto the site.
The drawback is that the occasional good comment gets marked as bad, but that’s a necessary nuisance.
Caravaggios has great decor — nice to see an old fashioned cafe these days — with the candelabra style light fittings & marble check floors you half expect the Godfather, or Silvio from the Sopranos tucking into a plate of ‘noodles & sauce’ with a big cloth napkin tucked into their collar.
Bizzare choice of artwork though — Ca ravaggios ‘John The Baptist’ complete with bloody severed head sits centre stage — anyone for a rare Tbone?
Food was inexpensive & of reasonable quality. The espresso was excellent –must be the best in Camberwell –not hard I hear you cry — with the state of local competition ie. the appalling coffee at House, or the Castle’s Vile Latte. Service was very good & friendly they have many years of Camberwell experience thru Mozzerella so should go well. Good luck to them.
Nice to have a new shitstirrer on the block Johnny M — could he be a new Benhill increasingly deranged ?
Good bit of Poetry Dagmar lurv ur wurk!
Peterw — glad the van is fixed i hope you have given it a good clean — when i saw it it reminded me of a hencoop uncleaned for a decade.
Peter — I understand entirely re spam, and won’t take the filter’s diligence personally.
Bunbohue — I took the van to one of the hand wash operations off Camberwell Rd. They took one look at it and more than doubled the usual price. It was a fair deal — the guy spent nearly an hour scraping away the work of SE5’s birds. The curious thing was the van had only been broken down for a few weeks. I should never have parked it under a tree.
“Camper van” may cause problems with the Bowdlerisation software, which computer-translates the phrase as “mobile cottage” then bans the post altoghether.
Good news, Dodds. THERE ARE DAUPHINES IN THE 99p SHOP! I have one for you in red, 1961. I’ll dig out the DS’s and drop ‘em all round while you’re slurping champagne with Harriet.
JohnnyM, your mate was right.
You have had your door pissed on, so you have every right to feel disenchanted — that is the unvarnished truth of such experience.
You have put the cat amongst the pigeons on this site and no mistake. Should socialists drink champagne or have furniture? “No future”, was once the slogan. “NO FURNITURE” could now be seen on t-shirts worn by people granted an audience with Gordon Brown. Outside in the street, the huddled masses chant, “What do we want?” “Brown ale!” When do we want it? Now!”
Blah blah blah
Anyway. Camberwell got some decent press today in Eve Standard/London Lite (cue all the comments about rubbish dumbing down newspapers blah blah blah)
Of course it’s chucked in with New Cross – surely a new hotspot for going out (or getting shot if you’re a health worker walking home in broad daylight. But I digress. Here’s the link: http://www.tiny.cc/752Bp
Highlight re: Camberwell
Hermit’s Cave
28 Camberwell Church St, SE5, 020 7703 3188
What: Camberwell cognoscenti
Why it’s cool: Funki Munki offers more dressed-up dancing youngsters, The Sun And Doves has groovy folk singers and film nights, but this is where you go in Camberwell for sheer unpretentious pub good times. The friendly crowd and good beer are a real antidote to the ubiquitous cleaned-up gastropubs.
What it costs: £2.90 pint, £3.20 V&T
Who goes there: Clued-up locals.
Yes PeterW Spam stuff. My comments have not been appearing as I post. Quite disconcerting isn’t it?
Dagmar *thanks* re the Dauphine
More Cowling and Wilcox for art lovers: http:/www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/1946395644/
49 — Funny you should say that ‘guru, coming down and bolting the door shut was exactly what the nasties at TFL did to put me out of business.
For starting a tenants association IIRC.
I’m not bitter tho — I learned a lot about recognising them for next time.
Drew
“Blah blah blah” is most amusing!
I’m off to Sidcup to get my papers, my papers who tell me who I am, see. It’s all the foreigers fault, it’s them foreigners, see, blah blah blah…
Blah blahblahblahblab
My posts are not posted until hours later. Peter must have a lot on. In da spam.
It seems all my comments are spam now!
Had lunch at the Bear
starters & mains excellent –perhaps some elitism here…what is an ONGLET? I know but perhaps most casual customers do not. The excellent steak may be Camberwells best kept secret — in fact there was only 3 other tables at 2.30 on a Sunday having lunch — a disaster considering the Castle with its shocking food was packed.
Pudding was dreadful — we did complain but it was not deducted . 10% service chrage was unlawfully levied without prior notice. Very unhappy about that.
also £3 for vegetables.
Considering how quiet they are there perhaps they sHould make a LOT more effort not to piss off/alienate the potential customers with petty charges.
The food isn’t cheap — £ 50 + for 2 with 4 drinks . Get it together guys!
I’m still not getting posted.
I feel so dejected. So left out. Sigh.
But it says there’s a 10% service charge at the bottom of the menu, doesn’t it?
I think they do this because with a gastropub people often don’t tip because they think it’s not a restaurant, even though they’ve been given the same level of service.
The service I’ve had in The Bear has been uniformly great and friendly so it doesn’t bother me. Surly service in a West End club, with a 12.5% service charge, THAT bothers me.
Norman, you’re still alive!
I also had lunch at the Bear yesterday but we were gone by 1pm.
I don’t know what an Onglet is. Will look it up.
The food was fantastic and the service was spot on. Charming girls. Although the bald guy with a beard was annoying in the Prince Regent in Herne Hill he seems to have calmed down a bit in his latest role.
Must be the same company as the Prince Regent– bar man apart the Top Trump tab cards are a dead giveaway.
Spent about £30. Really happy — certainly no complaints. We also found it a bit busier than Bunbohue describes. Perhaps it tailed off after when we were there…
shamefully i still haven’t eaten at the Bear yet despite it being one of my closest pubs — must try it out very soon.
Oh it’s hanger steak.
Maybe next time…
Norman maine
no mention of the service charge on the menu. My main point is that they aren’t helping themselves develop a customer base with this kind of stuff — a pub should cost ‘service’ into its food cost.
I ‘ve no problem with tipping but many places the management pocket the service charge as a part of their revenue & don’t give it to the waiting staff.
Also charging for extras like veg isn’t flash in a community/local pub when you are already paying £13 + service charge for a main course. The Bear/Camberwell isn’t the Ivy/Mayfair. I understand that cash flow is hard when starting a new business but they are robbing themselves
if they can’t attract new custom or alienate what they have.
The Bear and the new Italian are rubbish! Let’s all tear ‘em down and hope they close. The sooner they do we can get another offie and maybe another fried chicken joint. Gaurdain is spot on. It’s street against street and neighbour against neighbour ’round here. No wonder community groups can’t get anything done. Oh wait. Here comes the SOHEE CAHNOREE lecture.