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Welcome to the Camberwell Online blog, a place for free and spirited exchange on anything with even a tangential connection to the South-East London district.
Denmark Hill to be a tube station by 2010?
Published by Peter | Filed under Development, Transport
This one slipped past me in the festive flurry…
According to the SLP, discussions are underway to bring the East London Line extension forward to 2010. This would extend from Surrey Quays station to Clapham Junction, passing through Denmark Hill. There are a planned four trains per hour (does this mean four per hour in each direction, or two in each direction for a total of four? I think the former).
It’s not all good news, however, as the same article says the London Bridge - Victoria service could be cut five years later. While a connection to Clapham Junction would be very welcome, I would use connections to London Bridge and Victoria much more frequently.
Decisions are to be made shortly.
January 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
If that is true, then it’s fantastic news, a great way to start the year - I’d like to think that TFL have seen sense and have realised that it would be petty and foolish to delay the extension to Clapham Junction…The cost of the project is almost entirely cosmetic and low-cost - only a minor section of viaduct needs to be built at South Bermondsey to create Surrey Canal Road station and join onto the loop through to Denmark Hill…
Who knows? Maybe one day they might get around to adding an extra station at Loughborough Junction…That really would be fantastic…
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January 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
On all these issues of local transport, shopping, health, parking - it really needs people who live here to get involved, even if only by completing questionnaires, like the shopping survey - Roanna put the link on the previous thread - go on! do it if you haven’t already:
http://www.camberwellrenewal.org.uk/00,news,1001,185,00.htm
On trains, the Victoria - London Bridge link is very likely to go unless a lot of concerted local pressure is applied.
There is need of more space at London bridge for commuter trains from Kent and the loop service is likely to cease to make extra capacity for out-of-Londoners.
SE5 Forum has been involved in work on this, I’ll ask the transport person to provide more information here and on SE5forum.org.
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January 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Mark - Last year, I suspected that the removal of the Victoria - London Bridge Loop might be sweetened by bringing the ELL extension forward - a direct link to Victoria is handy though, I can see why a lot of people will be upset…
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January 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 am
Yes euse very perceptive I thought I recalled your saying something like that…
Just got a message from Beverley Carpenter - who does large scale projections onto buildings as here -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/se5forum/sets/72157600423813480/
She’s in Camberwell again soon for a project of projections onto the magistrates courts and needs good value, cheap, accommodation from January 14 - 19. Can anyone help?
She’s a very nice person by the way, as well as being a great artist.
Anyone can send me a private message at mark@sunanddoves.co.uk and I can put her in touch.
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January 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 am
I have written to my (Lambeth) Councillors, London Assembly Member (Val Shawcross) and MP (Kate Hoey) to ask them to lobby for a stop at Loughborough Junction. Only Val replied. Might be useful if others contacted their representatives.
The arguments against are that the North/South Line is too high and that building a station would take out some of the employment in the Loughborough Junction industrial estate.
There is an interesting design for a new station at Deptford which is clamped onto the listed viaduct which could provide a solution in LJ. See http://www.communities.gov.uk/thamesgateway/overview/london/lewisham/deptfordstn/
Also, not sure how much employment currently provided by the LJ industrial estate - seems to be lots of churches! Surely a station at LJ would create more new jobs than would be lost?
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January 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
houseprices:
Per the update on houseprices.co.uk there are now 10 properties that have sold for £1million pounds or more in Camberwell. That puts us on level pegging with East Dulwich…
http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=Se5&n=10&f=pd
Back to LJ. would be a good addition to ELL extension. Should also get tram loop to join Peckham and Brixton terminuses…
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January 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Happy new Year all.
Good to hear about the ELL. Still feel strongly that Camberwell Green needs some kind of connection to the outside world that doesn’t run on tyres though. In my opinion LJ is blumming lucky to have Thameslink (and thus be in line to benefit from the £5.5bn investment in the service) given how little’s there by comparison and its proximity to Brixton.
For purely selfish reasons I’d be gutted if the London Bridge-Victoria route was scrapped and have jumped up and down accordingly. However I’m sure it could be argued that current transport provision is so poor that nothing should be taken away.
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January 3rd, 2008 at 1:10 pm
I should clarify that my posting above (5) relates to the East London Line extension.
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January 3rd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Over Christmas I was thinking about how Camberwell centre could be improved transport-wise.
My blue skies thinking (but achievable I think with a bit of political will and funding) ideal would be for the area where the bus garage is on Camberwell Road / Camberwell New Road to be redeveloped to create a new Camberwell railway station together with a bus interchange and room for expansion when (if) the tram and underground come - a kind of Vauxhall Cross type interchange.
Then I would move all the bus stops around the Green - eg on Church St and outside McDonalds - to the interchange which would make the pavements more free and stop the conflict between people passing through and people waiting for buses.
In addition ultimately if possible I would like to pedestrianise Camberwell Road near the Green so that the shops on that road are not so cut off from the rest of Camberwell but would form part of the wider green area, and I would restore the bingo hall to cinema use and implement various other improvements that would make Camberwell town centre ‘gel’ more.
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January 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Sounds nice.
Just been to Sainsbury’s. Nothing left.
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January 3rd, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Alan, nothing left of what? Sainsbury’s? Did I miss something again?
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January 3rd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Mumu. RIGHT ON.
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January 4th, 2008 at 9:47 am
No Nature baby wipes. No organic milk. Nothing on the shelves.
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January 4th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Alan -
I was going to go last night - but I suspected they might be a bit short after christmas…What is it with Sainsbury’s and their stock management system?
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January 4th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Happy New Year to all.
The Camberwell Daily on Clarendon Terrace is stocked plentifully with organic, fair trade and fresh produce, even at this festive time. It can be supplemented with trips to the MACOM Abidjan Market, for some French practice and directly imported Bordeaux, crepes and Lu biscuits, and the Co-op as an excellent back-up if the Daily runs out of organic milk etc…. C’est byang bong.
There is semi-official parking in the rear access road from Wyndham Road leading behind Clarendon Terrace.
They don’t do calves’ liver yet, however.
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January 4th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
MACOM Abidjan Market?
where is this? sounds amazing.
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January 4th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Anyone know anything about the Peabody Estate. A friend is looking to buy a 2 bed flat and saw one in there for £199,000. Seems like a good price but what is the estate like?
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January 4th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
@16 - it is amazing. I don’t know of anything quite like it in all of South London.
Go down Camberwell New Road towards the Oval, turn right at Wyndham Road (i.e. just after Clarendon Terrace) and it is directly on your left, in a blaze of dark green to the right of Camberwell Beds Corner.
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January 4th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
@Alan - do you mean the houses overlooking the Green? Is that called Peabody Estate? I know it’s owned by the Peabody Trust, but didn’t know it was called that.
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January 4th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
He showed me the link and it does look like that’s where it is yes Peter..
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January 4th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
thanks Reg, I’ll be sure to check it out this weekend.
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January 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
This might be a little help:
http://www.peabody.org.uk/
They look solidly built, in the way new homes used to be, but I couldn’t tell you any more than you probably know yourself.
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January 4th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
This is the one that sold at auction for £199k
http://auctions.erinaceous.com/images/dirt/residential/310/21.pdf
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January 4th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I think I remember seeing one or two of those flats for sale a few months ago, when I was browsing property websites (or ‘doing an Alan’, as it’s become known); they looked nice and were pretty cheap, but I’m not sure I’d want to live on top of the Green.
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January 4th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
The Green has been greatly improved in the last two years.
Camberwell Green is the next Hoxton Square you know..
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January 4th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I would advise with the Peabody to check out the service charge and whether there are ‘Decent Homes’ improvements due on the building or whether they have already been done. Private leasholders are liable to contribute to the cost of improvements and this can add up to several thousand pounds depending on what needs to be done - see http://www.peabody.org.uk/pages/GetPage.aspx?id=105
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January 5th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Went to Caravaggio for a coffee last night. Doing well. Cool crowd of trendy urbanites in the restaurant. A bit to cool for me in my office casuals but I think I got away with it..
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January 5th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
sAINSBURY’S CHOCOLATE BAR TASTE THE DIFFERENCE ARE REALLY GOOD VALUE RIGHT NOW. 2 FOR £1.50. hIGH CONTENT CCOCO AND A FRW DIFFERNET TYPES TO CHOOSE FROM. I’D STACK UP NOW!
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January 6th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Just found a beautiful very healthy looking, but sadly, dead fox in Denmark Road.
No scrawny beast but a solid well looked after animal that deserved a longer life.
Shame.
Disposed of in two bin bags then tossed into a municipal 1100 litre wheelie bin.
Anyone know of a taxidermist wanting a good specimen?
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January 6th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
The Dagmar family returned to Camberwell today penniless on a £1-a-mile breakdown truck. Out in the country, some ex-London friends, who now have a small smallholding, talked of two geese they kept. A local fox bit the heads off both geese just for the hell of it. The countryfolk said eat the geese anyway - the newcomers had merely been saved the business of festively terminating them. To snap the head off a goose out of sheer lust for life… Fantastic! It’s no wonder that attractive women are commonly called “foxes”!
A GRT 2K8 TO ALL URBAN PEOPLE & FOXES HEREPOSTING!
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January 7th, 2008 at 12:08 am
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/2172039697_3a8911873a_b.jpg
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January 7th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Yeah, but you should’ve seen the geese, running round like headless chickens, they were.
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January 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Gross picture!
Went to the Bear again this weekend. No sign of the Anglet but they did have vegetarian haggis with neeps. Self explanatory.
Also tried the pork in Betel leaves at Buddha jazz this weekend. I really like it in there. They haven’t got high chairs but were extremely friendly to the kids nevertheless..
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January 7th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
@ 31 There’s something about that photo I really like…
Dissappointed by the lack of free range/happy animal meat in Somerfields Ms Standingby and I made the trek over the hill to Sainsburys where we promptly spent a fortune on real ales and ciders to experiment with. I’m particularly looking forward to the Banana Bread Beer that I’ve heard mentioned here previuosly.
It’s good to see that Camberwell Daily should be able to help us out in guilt free food purchasing in an emergency.
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January 7th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
I was in the Grove yesterday at about 5- 6pm, there were only about 10 people in the place, felt pretty empty and lacking in atmosphere.
Also that room out the back is odd, very incongruent with the rest of the place’s feel and decor, and it smelt funny.
Toilets didn’t quite get it right either.
Oh well the pear Bulmers was very nice.
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January 7th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Always guaranteed a seat Genfink.
Did you have a game of guess who?
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January 7th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
@34 - It is probably the crimson blood you’re attracted to. Very bright.
For free range/happy animal meat, you want to make the short trip to Peckham farmers market on Sunday mornings. We went there again this weekend, it’s fantastic. There’s a bread stall, a cheese stall, a vegetable stall, and a meat stall; all are highly recommended.
We didn’t buy any meat this time as our freezer is full, but we bought some delicious blue cheddar, young buffalo mozzarella, granary rye bread, some earthy potatoes and assorted veg. Total cost: about £10.
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January 7th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
@37 The farmers’ market sounds grand. Able and Cole takes care of our vegetables but a source of happy meat is much welcomed!
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January 7th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
yes we did!
well actually, we were trying to see if Guess who had become more PC than it was when I was a young’un
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January 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Surely it’s up to the questionner as to how PC the game is.
That said if you’re overly PC you’ll never finish it.
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January 7th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I can’t see any game being PC apart from maybe pheasant you’ve run over in your own Tourareg or X5 by accident. The pheasants are fat at this time of year in the countryside - I haven’t seen one in Camberwell yet - and so colourful. They are from Iran, originally, when it was Persia, I believe. They look like gorgeous carpet patterns.
Was that a staged fox photograph, the sort they used to use in ads to promote women wearing fur? It sort of looked like Eartha Kitt on a red carpet at a premiere.
Shittake mushrooms, that’s what you want.
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January 7th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Dulwich Hamlet v Chatham Town
Kick off 3pm Saturday 12th January
The boys are in 5th place currently occupying a play-off position - They have a run of 4 consecutive games at home so I encourage everyone to attend plus drag along any of your friends,partners,lovers or mistresses who have never been to see ye olde local village team - Lets see if we can encourage them to obtain 12 points out of 12.
Dover Athletic will be tough opposition, they are top and have lost just once all season. The Met Police who are in 4th place (no doubt they have realised football is much safer than dealing with some of the inner-city youth) and Walton and Hersham who have a good bunch of fans and provide much mirth wherever they go. And then of course we have the team that started it all - the world famous Corinthian Casuals…Maybe we should all turn up for that game with immaculately brylcreamed hair whilst sporting a fake Victorian handlebar moustache as well as a walking cane…Maybe we could have some cream teas in Dulwich Village beforehand as well!
Upcoming fixtures at Champion Hill
26.01.08 Walton and Hersham (H)
29.01.08 Metropolitan Police (H)
02.02.08 Dover Athletic (H)
05.02.08 Corinthian Casuals (H)
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January 8th, 2008 at 10:57 am
@37 wouldnt it be great if we could have a Camberwell farmers’ market? The pedestrianised road (is it Daneville Road?) behind the Butterfly Walk Somerfield would be a great location
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January 8th, 2008 at 11:19 am
You mean Selborne Village Square?
Yes it would be a great location for a market of some description.
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January 8th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Ooh yes drive up the house prices in the ‘village’! I imagine there would be a lot of demand from people on Grove Lane/ Camberwell Grove and surrounding streets. Somerfield might not be too happy though but it might force them to sharpen up their act.
Practically I guess someone would need to contact Southwark to suggest the idea.
Do Southwark like Lambeth have Town Centre Managers responsible for the different areas within the borough? Or is there a council officer with specific responsibility for Camberwell town centre? Does anyone know how the Peckham farmers’ market got established?
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January 8th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Southwark does not have town centre managers like Lambeth. Stan Dubeck leads on Camberwell regeneration for the council but I am not sure what his exact title is.
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January 8th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
There was a ‘continental’ market on Camberwell Green last year which wasn’t well supported, by all accounts. The farmers market at Peckham isn’t exactly chocka with customers, and there’s now a farmers market in Oval, I believe. I find it unlikely that we could support three farmers markets in such a small area (although I’d love to be proved wrong).
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January 8th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
On another note this weekend Mayor of London Ken is offering everyone up to 2 free energy efficient lightbulbs if you take old ones into branches of B&Q and exchange them - see http://www.london.gov.uk/lightbulbs/ so it looks like I will be making the journey to Old Kent Road again
Being cynical do I detect an election in the near future at which Ken will portray himself as the green mayor?
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January 8th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I see you can rent a room in the Old Father Red Cap (The Redstar) for £80 per week.
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January 8th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
The landlord of the Redcap, when it was the gay Redcap, or “Old Cock”, used to take care of his simpering, boyish bar staff in those rooms - kinda boy-rent heaven.
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January 8th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
@43 SE5 Forum, Camberwell Arts and Camberwell Neighbourhood Renewal were behind the pilot Arts & Craft market on Camberwell Green in 1996 and 1997. The trials worked well, each blessed with good weather and grant support from local authority and other sources. Repeating the exact format on an often and regular basis would not be financially sustainable without such support and there are strict limitations to Camberwell Green being used for such activities throughout the year.
Following the pilots it seemed clear that a broader range of goods would be needed to attract more footfall and Farmers’ market inclusion would be essential…
The next challenge was to find a location that could be used and managed on a frequent weekly basis successfully without disturbing residents and numerous planning/legal difficulties. Then bringing together the logistics work and the right range and balance of traders in advance to make the imagined market a success from the outset, and finding the necessary funds to get it off the ground. And so on.
Since then talks have been talked with experienced market operators about a possible market at Daneville Road, as it’s such an obvious contender although being tucked away rather discretely marketing effectively would be essential. Don’t know what stage it’s at now.
@46 Stan Dubeck is Camberwell Neighbourhood Renewal manager.
@47 I missed the continental market on the Green but from memory it was not well enough publicised in advance. As for the Peckham and Oval markets plus a third being not viable Peter is on the mark as usual. My view is that Camberwell Green would be the perfect site, if suitably adapted, to attract all comers - stall holders and customers - from a very wide area and it has easy overspill space onto the piazza in front of the courts and across Camberwell Road id the market were to really take off. Daneville Road is also an excellent location and - if well organised and operated - there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be strong enough competition to attract stallholders and customers from other locations and be the market to visit on a weekend. Cowling and Wilcox and Great Expectations could be the gatekeepers of one end of the market and pedestrian circulation though Butterfly Walk and up and down Grove Lane would improve shopping footfall all round… The owners of Butterfly Walk would no doubt have to be involved.
@48 Ken Livingstone has existing well established strong green credentials.
@49/50 Father Red Cap I might be tempted to move in; whatever, it should have remained a gay venue but much smarter and more upmarket. I had several great nights in there with gay friends before the demise of its longstanding esoteric incarnation. It would have worked brilliantly as a contemporary gay bar. But the Dog Star boyos took it on with no idea or understanding of Camberwell and just went for short term disco money and blew a historic landmark out the water.
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January 26th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Hi,
I’ve just recently moved to Camberwell and discovered this fantastic blog.
It’s good new to see that the denmark Hill station may be part of the overground improvement scheme.
But I was wondering why there is no plan to reopen the Camberwell station along the Thameslink tracks? This station existed already and is now used a a garage and there is quite a long distance between Elephan and castle station and longborough Junction. Does anyone know if the reopenenig of this station is programmed in the thameslink improvement scheme?
I think it would be a great and very cheap (with an excellent value of money :-)) way to improve the transport links in Camberwell. Reopenning and upgrading the Camberwell station would mean access to central London in just a few minutes (just around 3 minutes to Elephant and castle instead of 20 minute now with the bus. It would also help reduciing the number of bus lines that “pollute” the Walworth and Camberwell Road.
So has this idea been already mentionned? Why is it not progressing and hy is no one talking about it?
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January 26th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Welcome Denis!
I think everyone here would agree with you about the station - we have dsicussed it on several occasions and Southwark Council, our GLA member Valerie Shawcross and probably Ken would agree with you and us - it would be a comparatively minor cost and would ease congestion etc etc etc.
However there was talk from Network Rail of having to shut Loughborough Junction if they reopened Camberwell which no body wants. Do a search on the archive and you will see the discussions about it and also on the SE5 forum website.
I think its to do with Network Rail priorities - the Mayor of London doesnt actually have control over the tracks or rail companies (he has just gained control of the Richmond - East London ‘overgorund’m bit and has plans for otehr stations but the Thameslink and Denamrk Hill lines are still run by the train operators not Transport for London. He does however have a power of persuasion nad political power which I remain convinced would be enough to bring the station to Camberwell - maybe we should demand answerrs from Ken, local councillors, local MPs.
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January 26th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
The TfL overground information is at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/3489.aspx
and further infor on Camberwell station at http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/57
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January 26th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Mumu - I agree that the question of whether Ken, and all the other mayoral candidates, would press hard for the reopening of Camberwell Rail Station, should be posed before the mayoral elections.
The argument should be put in the context of freight transport to local business, as Network Rail have considered it in a commuter context, and rejected it.
If we can secure this commitment from the victorious candidate, I anticipate serious inward investment in Camberwell throughout the credit crunch, as the local SE5 economy is separate to the house price slump we are seeing.
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January 27th, 2008 at 11:21 am
On a transport related note I see that the 36 bus is to start running 24 hours with increased frquencies from 9 Feb. Also a news nightbus N136 will be starting which will call at Camberwell
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/7293.aspx
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January 27th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
No candidate for Mayor will make Camberwell an issue. They may pay a bit of lip service if cornered but it ain’t a big piece of the victory pie.
Oh great! The 36 is harrowing in daylight. Can’t wait to see what it’s like at 2am.
LAME: No one reported on Alex James from Blur on Question Time last week. A prize to the person who completes his retort re: Jaqui’s famed visit to Peckham for a kebab.
‘She should’ve have gone…’
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January 27th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
“She should have of gone to Camberwell, instead, for a nice, plump Kennedy’s sausage before they were disgracefully taken off of the nation’s menu. Gorblimey.”
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January 27th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
A bit right, but mostly wrong Dags, which is par for the course.
‘She should’ve gone to Camberwell where the kebabs are much better.’
Dunno where. But there’s our claim to fame. A national audience reminded we’re in the same mess as Peckham but with better kebabs. Lock those doors!!
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January 27th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Don’t know. Blessed are the cheesemakers? QT with AJ was like watching matthew paris try to hold down blur’s rhythm section. jacqui smith does live in peckham, so i’d expect her to score her kebabs from that hood.
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January 27th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Not sure if she’s still there. Choumert Road was crawling with bluebottles a while back but they’ve gone now. Thought it might have been security for the new job but maybe she’d just dropped her kebab.
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January 27th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Anyway, Waitrose in Camberwell.
Yes, there was a Waitrose in Camberwell in 1921. Addington Square. John Lewis archives don’t have much information but call it a branch providing additional warehousing, although the reference they provided refers to it as ‘Head Office’.
Choice picnic hams at sevenpence ha’pny a pound and breakfast eggs at a penny each or seven for a tanner. You’d have to go to Lidl for that nowadays.
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January 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Thank you everyone for your answers.
I had imagined that in the current context of railways in the UK and especially in london, this very simple and cost effective reopenning couldn’t happen.
It’s quite a shame for the area (even if like someone said, it would increase rents and price of flats).
About Network Rail’s argument, I do not agree as it is possible to open Camberwell Station and keep loughbourough Junction open. The solution is just to operate better trains. I’ve seen the RER in Paris (very long trains) that stop and accelerate like the tube! I’m sure it’s also achievable in the UK.
But I guess the first step would be that TfL takes the control over all the london commuter railway routes. This change would switch the main purpose of railways from raising revenues (for train companies to provide an efficient transport service to Londoners.
So thanks again for you reply and thanks for the links.
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January 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Johnny - Re: 36 being a 24 hour bus - you need to get out more!! It’s been a night bus for years and i used it since moving to London nearly ten years ago without incident (well apart from the time a young chap with very low slung trousers fell over when the bus lurched round the corner at vauxhall and showed everyone on the bus his bare behind!!)
Good news it’s going to be a 24 hour bus for many people on Camberwell new Road it’s their only nightbus.
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