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Welcome to the Camberwell Online blog, a place for free and spirited exchange on anything with even a tangential connection to the South-East London district.
Worst for Monopoly, best for murals
Published by Peter | Filed under Development, Eating & Drinking, History, London, Nearby
I found myself over on the Old Kent Road at the weekend, where I discovered the old North Peckham Civic Centre and its fantastic mural depicting the road’s place in history, from the Romans to the 20th century. Very pretty, very informative, and a bit of a treasure.
Tucked away amongst the images of South London life was the old coat of arms of the Metropolitan Borough of Camberwell, with its now cheerfully ironic motto “All’s Well”:
While on the subject of Camberwell’s history, some pictures turned up over the weekend showing the streets which were knocked down to form Burgess Park in the early 1980s. Interesting to think of what was there before.
I also strayed across the border on Saturday night, visiting Peckham’s new bar/dining room, The Montpelier. Nice, although a little barn-like; big empty spaces and plain walls. The table service was welcome, although the food was a couple of quid overpriced for my tastes. Selection of beers wasn’t great, either. Over all it was pretty good, but didn’t give me the urge to rush back there.
Like always, I’m sure I had something else to comment upon, but I just can’t remember it now. I really should keep a list.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I had always assumed that Burgess Pk was created from bombsites, and that’s why its shape is odd. we lvie, we learn
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February 18th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Coat of arms is lovely, good find Peter.
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February 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
On the subject of knocking down streets to create a park, I’ve been thinking recently that the current waste land that has been created by the demolision of the Elmington Estate up Edmund Street could be cleared and turfed to make a nice park. The rebuilding of the estate seems to have ground to a halt, so perhaps this would be a nice alternative? Well, I can but dream!
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February 18th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
thinking of Burgess Park - does anyone have pics or plans of the Surrey Canal? I’ve been trying to find evidence of what it did (or was meant to do) beyond the ’spur’ going in to Peckham.
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February 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
The underpass at Wells Way has pics and maps drawn on the walls.
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February 18th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
You can buy reproduction Ordnance Survey maps for a pound or two at the Cuming Museum on Walworth Road or from the Local Studies Library on Borough Road - they’re really fascinating. I especially love the detail of all the factories along the canal: salt works, lime works, mineral water works, the Bible factory…
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February 19th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Peter - I’ve actually lived around here for long enough to remember those roads that used to exist in Burgess Park.
There were many Victorian Tenements along Albany Road, just like the one in the photo and I actually remember a Hotel on the corner of Albany Road/Old Kent Road too…
Perhaps at the time the thinking was “out with the old, in with the new” but I can’t help thinking that if the canal hadn’t of been filled in -Camberwell and Peckham would of had a fantastic resource which would have been the main focal point for regenerating the area at a fraction of the cost now…
What Southwark Council/L.C.C did in the 60’s and 70’s was simply unforgiveable
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February 19th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Check out the old lime kiln that is still standing in the Camberwell New Road end of Burgess Park. The last remaining structure of the areas industrial past. Smoke(a London Peculiar)has had some great articles on Burgess Park and the Surrey Canal recently. Smoke is a great little magazine and worth getting hold of.
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February 19th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Burgess Park is in the process of being turned into a Community Trust run by Groundwork London. My main issue with these guys having worked with them in the past is that they do not deliver sustainable projects. The staff have great ideas but the just not practical
http://www.groundwork-sl.org.uk/news/detail/index.asp?id=20&npage=1&category=11
for more details.
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February 19th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
@ love-borough junction: I used to buy Smoke regularly from Wordsworth. Like many other great little independents, it’s next to impossible to find here now.
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February 19th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
peter @10
a list of stockists…
http://home.btconnect.com/smoke/stockists/stockists.htm
Tlon Books in Elephant stock it!
& Crockett and Powell in Lower Marsh
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February 19th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Mary Boast’s book “The Story of Camberwell” has an account of the origins of Burgess Park. The plan dates from 1943, and was intended to provide a “green lung” for the South of London. Land was acquired over the years following the war, and the park was completed in 1982. 30 streets, 900 dwellings, schools, churches, factories etc were destroyed along the way.
The book in a Southwark Council publication, so should be available from libraries. It also has a photograph of the Canal dating from 1934.
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February 19th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
On another subject entirely, we learnt this morning that Post Office Ltd plans to close the Post Office in Peckham Road. I picked up a leaflet there this morning. A local public consultation is taking place, which closes on 2 April, and if they go ahead the closure will take place in June 2008 at the earliest.
I think this is a great pity. We use that branch quite often, and none of the alternatives is as convenient or as pleasant. When I was in there today there was a queue that reached almost to the street - oh, the irony!
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February 20th, 2008 at 8:37 am
If it’s successful. Close it down. That makes sense.
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February 20th, 2008 at 8:39 am
That’s what you all want for the bookies, off-licenses and chicken shops isn’t it?
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February 21st, 2008 at 10:07 am
Well?!
I reckon we should let the chicken lovers, drinkers and gamblers have their fun. Me included. I regularly buy a bucket of wings after a few pints in the Buckle, and sometimes I buy a late night can of lager for the walk to Loughborough junction to see the Piano Seller.
I have never placed a bet in Camberwell though. At the risk of getting spam blocked I have to recommend Betfair for gambling.
On the flip side all the more middle class places are undersubscribed. The Bear is the best food pub for miles around but we’ve never had difficulty getting a table..
Until we get the long awaited influx of yuppies I think we should let the shops cater for local demand.
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February 21st, 2008 at 10:27 am
I don’t remember anyone calling for the shops to all be shut down; I think the general feeling was that we’ve got enough now.
As has been explained before, the volume of takeaways and off-licences doesn’t indicate that there’s a demand for more; it’s that businesses like this generate fast cash turnover and so are an easy option for landlords. Or something.
But the more there are of them, the less likely it is that other varieties of shop want to open up in the same area.
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February 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I think that restricting outlets to organic butchers, gift shops, and delicatessens is getting the cart before the horse.
Are we saying that the fried chicken market is beyond saturation? There has to come a time when it’s not economical to open another bookies.
Camberwell is in a great location with good transport links. We need more high end housing to bring in people who will be interested in Northcross Road type shops before we need to force shops to sell retro-modern furniture and delicious smelly cheese.
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February 21st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Peter is right.
Local Camberwell spending power dwarfs that of local Lordshippers, due partly to higher residential density. But the “middle class places” do less well due to a combination of factors:
(a) As exhaustively discussed elsewhere, it is more difficult to visit Camberwell than neighbouring areas such as Peckham, Clapham and Lordship Lane.
(b) Camberwell’s streets are unpleasant for a variety of reasons not exotic enough for local campaigners to get exited about. Locals - let alone visitors - don’t want to spend leisure time there, hence the massive exodus of local disposable income to neighbouring areas and the centre.
That, folks, is known to those in the trade as suppressed demand.
But frankly, after Northern Rock, all talk of invisible hands and the justice of market forces has to go out of the window and fly off to a distant channel island where it can become the exclusive intellectual property of an offshore trust.
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February 21st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I’m finding you uncharacteristically unclear Reg.
Are you saying that because Northern Rock has been nationalised we should prevent chicken shops, off licenses and bookies from opening in Camberwell?
I know you are delighting in this banking failure but I think it’s muddying your argument here.
Glad to hear Peter is right though. Do you mean that in the light of the credit crisis he is right to be renting rather than have bought a house or are you talking about offlicenses again?
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February 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Alan has this town sussed.
God bless Northern Rock and all of you who are supporting her. We got a 110% mortgage from them at 6x my salary. Course we realised our repayments would be the same as the three of us (me, my girl and our mate) so no big deal. It cost me zero to buy (got fees etc on top) and now we service the interest at same cost as rent. And my profit just keeps on climbin’. Some day soon we’ll cross that river wide. And leave behind some lovely bedsits for those truly in need of affordable housing. I think I’m a saint.
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February 21st, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I’d rather have organic yuppy shops than fried chicken and betting.
Just ‘cos people buy this stuff, doesn’t make it good. More sad than good.
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February 21st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I’m not sure how the debate got framed as organic yuppie shops vs chicken & betting, because I don’t think that’s the issue. The issue should be a variety of shops which cater to everyone, rather than a glut of identical shops which make us leave the area to buy anything other than fried chicken or booze. For example, I don’t care about having an organic butcher, I care about having a butcher which sells good quality meat. You can’t buy that here.
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February 21st, 2008 at 4:09 pm
After that anti-organic outburst I’m not sure what you want round here Peter?
What’s your problem with organic food? You can always add pesticides at home if you feel they are missed.
I like fried chicken. I like beer and I don’t mind a bit of gambling. D-MAN do you think I’m ’sad’?
According to Alan Partridge kettles are ’sad’. He’s got a flavia coffee machine.
sad?!
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February 21st, 2008 at 4:12 pm
JohnnyM you say I have it sussed but I love Camberwell more than you love your Mum.
I also suspect that renting out a room to your better looking friend is playing with fire. Tenner says he’s had at least a near miss with your Mrs. Do you suspect anything? Always the last to know..
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February 21st, 2008 at 5:37 pm
:). No, you seem full of enthusiasm.
My point was low income areas, like Camberwell, suffer from crap food and poor health. That’s sad.
The fact that it’s hard to get fresh, organic veg is disturbing. If I ate animals I’d worry about that as well.
I do like beer, spliff, etc — but not fried chicken.
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February 21st, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Not even a Zinger Tower Burger?
It’s really easy to get the veg you describe on Dog Kennel Hill in a lovely organic grocer I know called J Sainsbury Plc.
Central Camberwell you have to pull the other eco card of supporting local small business and go to Cruson. It’s not organic - it’s the other eco option - considerate pesticide consumption.
Glad to hear you’re a weed smoking vegetarian. I eat meat (even veal and stuff) and my weed smoking is severely limited because I can’t roll but I can manufacture a bong out of an apple then eat the evidence. Great trick I learnt from a Kiwi guy whilst camping in Biarritz.
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February 21st, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Yeah, I like the eco card. Might as well play that one, no?
Not so hung up on the organic thing, but it sets the tone about right.
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February 21st, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Nearly forgot, there’s a thing for kids at the South London Gallery over half term.
Angolan drumming & videos & stuff. Cool.
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February 21st, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Me and my 2 went today & saw the Angolan land mine video and participated after. The 2 were filmed by a film lady, imitating heartbeats, though the baby ran away. The music to the video was great - Portuguese African music bouncing along like a couple in the Buckle. The other 8″ video is a bit grisly, though my 4 year old and her pal sat through it, nodding and whispering. Viva Angola, viva Cuba, viva Camberwell!
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February 22nd, 2008 at 8:31 am
Viva Camberhell
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February 22nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
Anyone notice the quality of the new paving on Denmark Hill? Notice the food stains on the pavement under the new bus stop? The paving hasn’t been down a week and it already looks crap.
The bus stop outside MacDonald’s has its legs in tarmac. I can’t figure out how they can change that so it’s paved instead.
Social engineering on a fairly profound scale is needed around here.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 9:06 am
Having a low moment Mark? Chin up.
Tell us about the bailiffs you snapped and flickred.
(Enjoying your photos by the way…)
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February 22nd, 2008 at 10:21 am
Is the Angolan drumming thing open tomorrow afternoon?
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February 22nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
D-MAN
Totally agree with you about your points regarding fast food…
gum disease,diabetes,obesity and heart failure is all it guarantees…Don’t eat it it’s shit
But then McDonalds,KFC,Subway,Chicken Cottage,Burger King - don’t care about that as long as there are enough people who are uneducated enough to buy it their shareholders get rich and they argue that they create much needed jobs in the community…
It’s all self-defeating in the end, but we live in a short-term world and there isn’t a damn thing that the 35% can do to change it…
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February 22nd, 2008 at 11:31 am
Yeah you’re right poor people have got absolutely no idea that fried chicken is unhealthy.
They don’t even realise that smoking kills.
Impoverished fat simpletons.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
I’d guess we all do stuff that’s not healthy. It’s hard to break out of it sometimes.
And where do you draw the line? Smoking might be less risky than cycling.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 11:38 am
About the Angolan drumming. I’ll ‘fess up. I didn’t go. But the kids did and quite liked it (or maybe they just humor me).
They did sort of say there was something disturbing about it thou’. Now I know what.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 11:40 am
I think you draw the line at a point prior to saying that anyone who buys fast food is uneducated..
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February 22nd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Fast food I generally find unpalatable but there is one treat I experience at motorway service stations about twice a year.
The kids will not eat MacDonald’s - they say it’s disgusting *glows with pride* - they like Burger King. So the last time I had an spicy chilli double Angus or something like that. It’s really, very good. To do something that good on such a large scale is quite an achievement.
Alan - I’m not down I just can;t stand seeing lots of money wasted on unimaginative materials being laid badly which, in a matter for weeks, will look as crap as the materials they replaced at £150K cost (I recall it being 150K I might be out a bit). And that none of that is linked in to anything else that needs to be done to this area.
And I had no problem understanding regeneguru’s points above.
And the bailiffs were from Lambeth for unpaid rates - belive me it;s a long story and they didn’t have a warrant and they were not entitled to but they did get the money including their handsome £700 or whatever fee because they just bullied and barged their way into getting it. “it’s a civil matter” the police said “all we can do is prevent a breach of the peace” the police said. Pathetic… Anyway suing them will cost more than it cost to get rid of them so there’s point.
Come the revolution.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
NO POINT
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February 22nd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Alan Dale -
Fast Food
No, it’s not 100% down to lack of education, but in most cases (particularly amongst youngsters) it certainly is…
The occasional snack/treat won’t do anybody much harm but there are many people who regularly eat it for breakfast,lunch and dinner without realizing just how bad it really is.
It may be cheap but that’s not really an excuse…maybe a lack of basic cookery skills is, which used to be deemed important when we lived in a more qualitative society…
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February 22nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Anyone who harks ack to a bygone age is either misguided or just flat wrong.
We’ve never had it so good.
Short termism has it’s down sides but it is also very rewarding. In the short term at least.
Perhaps you could clarify Reg’s point for the rest of us. Was he saying don’t pay your rates because of Northern Rock?
Glad you’ve paid up now Mark especially seeing as Peter’s post about paying taxes sited you as an example of an upstanding tax payer. What is the tax on nine grand a year by the way?
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February 22nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I think the point about education was not that anyone who eats fast food is thick, but that in the case of younger people they may not have been taught the basics of good nutrition.
As for harking back to the good old days, I certainly wouldn’t want a return to rationing or the barter system, but I do think the growing movement towards better quality food is a reaction against the bland fare of the petrochemical age.
Of course, eventually we’ll have to face up to not just the quality of the food we eat, but the quantity. Easting meat every day is unsustainable.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Alan. The tax on 9 grand a year is very little as is obvious.
For your edification, about the taxes I am responsible for paying, as you evidently didn’t believe me when I told you how much I earn. I pay 29K a year in business rates to Lambeth. The council tax on the flat is £1,300. I pay around 70K a year vat and in the region of 50K paye and NI. I pay myself subsistence wages because I cannot afford to pay myself more and there are no dividends, just personal loans I doubt I will ever be repaid. I do not own the property, it rented, I have spent more on it than it is valued for assignment. I cannot afford a mortgage. The beer I am legally forced to buy from the freeholder is priced such that it is impossible to return a living profit on it. My last rent review is two and a half years past due date and is sitting as an application in an in tray at the court of appeal waiting for a decision as to whether it should be heard or rejected. If it is rejected I will be immediately liable for rent arrears which stand today at around 33K. The freeholder has indicated that they intend to sue me for all their costs for arbitration and appeal. This, conservatively, will be another 50K. My own costs for the rent review to date stand at 30K - one of the reasons I cannot afford to pay myself. If I am unable to pay the back rent the freeholder will put me in an arrears situation and threaten to evict me within two weeks.
Stick that in your pipe.
IF you think publicans have it rosy have a look at The Morning Advertiser website forums.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Er… that’s over a 100 grand a year in taxes - the paye and ni is, of course on the payroll.
I don’t have a pension either. And I’m 50 this year. I sleep secure every night knowing I could have done it differently if I knew fifteen years ago what I know now.
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February 22nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
How much tax do you pay Alan?
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February 22nd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
*vendetta*
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February 22nd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
OK Mark- you have enough on your plate without me winding you up.
Not sure about your VAT point though. I thought you shouldn’t be paying VAT as long as your vatable sales exceed your vatable supplies. You are collecting it rather than paying it. Your customers pay it right?
Glad that I’m close to my flaming best. I’ve gone a bit soft recently. Still digging up the whole Jamie Oliver chips through the school fence is a bit weak. Must try harder.
Looking good at 50 Mark. Keep snapping every mirror you pass and I’ll let you know if you start to age. As for the pub I don’t understand why you still do it. Is there no exit route? I am afraid that you haven’t convinced me that your project with the Doves is anthing more than a rich man’s play thing.
But who care’s what I think?
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February 22nd, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Mark’s troubles sound more like the result of an unrealistic property landlord who applies the rules of unregulated free-market economics to the nth degree whilst completely disgarding the concept of discretion and rationality…
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February 22nd, 2008 at 4:57 pm
In the light of Northern Rock, free market economics blah blah blah.
Anyone going to the Hermit’s Cave tonight?
I’m under house arrest after loads of pints in the Cockpit last night. That’s an ace pub. Very historic with lots of cock fighting pictures and memorabilia and it’s still got the galleried area where you would have been able to watch them cock it out..
Anyone know a country where cock fighting is still legal? Might make for a good stag do..
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February 22nd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
To return to the subject of the closure of the Peckham Road post office …
Here is a link to the London Area Plan Proposal: http://tinyurl.com/yqcbmv. This sets out general principles. Here is a link to the individual Branch Access Reports: http://tinyurl.com/2fhksl. Peckham Road is on page 124.
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February 23rd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Yes, Camberwell post office is a dismal experience, almost as bad as queuing at Walworth police station. I will pick up a leaflet at Peckham Road, but it’s not looking good for the Royal Mail or the Police or any such socially cohesive institution.
Perhaps private equity should buy the whole country and flog it after 18 months, as usual.
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February 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Dagmar the last point is inspired. It would work - win win for everyone.
The post office on Camberwell New Road opposite the corner of Vassal Road is a very pleasant place to shop for stamps.
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February 24th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Just heard Tony Ben on the radio talking about why we should keep Post Offices. Can’t xactly remember what’s so good about them, but it made sense at the time… something about EU regulations or summat.
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February 24th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
I think Post Offices should be like the one on Westminster Bridge Road - It’s a Spar supermarket and whilst you can pick up a few items of groceries, you also get the full range of Post Office services at the till, including bureau de change - it works wonderfully well…although maybe they should refrain from appling for an alcohol licence if a simular set-up opened here…
I bet the original Camberwell Post Office was a work of architectural beauty
What with the perfect textbook village set-up that once existed here and all that jazz…
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February 24th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Hi everyone, longish-term lurker taking the plunge…as a completely random comment, if anyone hasn’t tried the vegetable spring rolls in the Silver Lake on Church Street by the Castle then may I recommend them. Melt in the mouth perfection!
Also randomly, have lived in Camberwell for nearly 7 years now, and despite, or maybe because of its faults (still occasionally debate that one), still love the place - and Alan, I’m with you on the merits of the Hermits ;o) Jury’s out on the Buckle though.
Sorry for the intrusion guys, that is all!
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February 25th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Talking of jazz, the Edward Burra show, in one room at Tate Britain, from when he was in Harlem is great - the Harlem Renaissance and all that, urban village not half. Also good is the main hall with all manner of white marble classical nudes and busts lit up in the dark. I thought I saw one move. It might be Lord Henry…
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February 25th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
@56 eusebiovic
Wholeheartedly agree with your comments about the Westminster Bridge Road Post Office. It’s really well run by the people who operate it, despite the really wierd shape. It was a traditional Post Office before being sold off to Spar and nowhere near as well run.
When using any Post Office, I can’t help but notice how alot of pensioners struggle with being forced into using the chip & pin state pension scheme. Every transaction takes about twice as long as it did before when they simply signed their weekly slip and had the money paid to them. It does seem sad that there appears to be a “one-size-fits-all” system that people of that generation really struggle with and then get humiliated in the process when they don’t press enter or remove their card from the reader too early. It makes me wonder what indignities I’ll face when I get to that age!
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February 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
@50 eusebiovic. Spot on. And they (the pubcos) are putting the screws on so much now that pubs are closing all over the place. It really deosn’t matter - there are too many pubs - everyone knows that - and there’s been a 5 - 15% decline in the majority’s income since the smoking ban so when a third of the remaining pubs have closed down what does that mean? There’s capacity for the remaining pubs to see their income rise again - supply and demand is being driven by pubcos who are now prperty companies not suppliers of goods. And when their estates are reduced bu a third what do they have then? A whole lot of bricks and mortar they can;t sell on as pub businesses? NO. They have a whole load of property that’s no longer usable as public houses because the climates, social economic and cultural have changed but there’s an enormous demand for residential accommodation. Planning rules relax for change of use of public houses to domestic and - HEY PRESTO! The value of your estate just shot up by two to four times current book value.
Any individual pub businesses that survive the onslaught of the insatiable megaliathon pubcos will simply be leaner and fitter as far as the pubcos are concerned. It’s win win win win all round with the principle winners being the ones who are controlling the market at every level - wholesale, retail, bricks and mortar - the pubcos.
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February 25th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Jackson Stoneblower spotted going past Ruskin Park today. What a fabulous name. A covers band of that name already exists in Yorkshire, unfortunately.
Then Vale of Pickering went past.
The big news from Ruskin, though, is that the old bowling green is being developed - not into flats, but flowerbeds and the like.
As a wild area it was great, especially if you like grasses, though somewhat poignant for those who knew the old bowling green. The new municipal flower beds will probably be great, though somewhat poignant, for those of us who knew the old wild area.
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February 25th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Mark @ 59 -
Quite what the government deciding to bail out Northern Rock has got to do with the way you are being treated by Scottish and Newcastle, I don’t know - but as usual it looks like Alan Dale puts 2 and 2 together and gets “Communist Marxist” as his result…
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February 26th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Actually it’s amazing how many publicans seem to think this government is communist. Actually some of them have called the New Labour lot a fascist dictatorship as well. I can’t imagine how they’d cope conceptually with a Tory government that did the smoke ban thing. I pointed out on a forum - for the sake of balance - did anyone notice the opposition opposing the smoking ban? NO is the answer.
Total silence response wise to that one.
Anyway Northern Rock / Scottish & Newcastle - they both lost their integrity when they lost their northern bosses. Plc my ar**
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February 26th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Whilst walking in the sunshine through Camberwell centre today thinking that all is well with the world I happened to turn the corner onto Denmark Hill and came across another sad sign of the decline of Camberwell.
Mozarella e Pomodores (Italian restaurant) had a sign on the door saying it was closed until further notice.
This is tragedy - in the past two years or so we have been going there at least once or twice a month and so it feels like the loss of a friend.
Does anyone know why it closed or whether its likely to open again?
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February 26th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Oh no!! We really liked it there. My new flatmate too her parents there for dinner last weekend and they were very impressed.
There are several reasons behing sudden closure but i wouldn’t want to speculate online!!
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February 26th, 2008 at 11:52 am
I’m surprised it’s closed. I’ve been a regular and it always seem to be busy whenever I’m there.
Maybe the exodus of veteran waiters to Caravaggio proved too debilitating. I really hope it is a temporary measure and it reopens.
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February 26th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Not surprising given the quality of the competition from Caravaggio
It’s abig place though so it will make a great Wetherspoons or perhaps another Nandos.
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February 26th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Alan - if i was Southwark licnesing the last thing i would put in the unit would be a Wethersppons.
Nothing against them per se but Camberwell Green really doesn’t need a pub selling very cheap beer on that corner.
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February 26th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
If an establishment has been closed by the bailiffs or the courts then a notice must be posted in the window saying so, and citing the contact details of the bailiff, and the plaintiff taking the action. So if thats not in evidence then it’s more likely to be just something accidental isn’t it? Do fire inspectors and health inspectors have to post notices?
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February 26th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
It was a hand written notice - not anything particularly official looking.
It said something like This restaurant is closed until further notice. The management would like to thank all our customers.
Inside I could see that the bottles of wine had all been placed on one of the tables which I guess would imply that they are gathering them together to sell off.
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February 26th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Regular reader, occasional poster.
Commiserations Mark - I remember the Sun and Dove before it became civilised, only an occasional visitor these days though impending retirement might change that.
Agree about the new paving stones on Denmark Hill, a totally pointless exercise typical of this schizophrenic council, closing the Livesey early to stop children going at Easter, yet wasting thousands on renewing a perfectly good pavement (maybe it’s a health and safety issue - less change of a serious injury if you fall on the new surface while being mugged outside MacShit).
And as a smoker I’m not surprised by the fall in trade; it’s not just the cold that gets to you while drinking outside, it’s every wino, often aggressive, who thinks you owe him a living that drives away casual drinkers who smoke. Last time a friend and I ate at the Vineyard we finished our meal with a ciggie outside and they turned on the outside heaters for us; no wonder people keep going back there.
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February 26th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Mozarella & tomato
Frank, the man behind Caravaggio, Tadim and Mozz e Pom, wants Mozz & Pom back. Frank currently fronts Caravaggio so go in there & ask him what’s going on with M&P. 10K increase in rent I believe.
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February 26th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
@71 John thanks and I look forward to your impending.
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February 26th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Someone is having a home birth in, I would say Gairloch Road, right now. How is it going? You can here her for miles in the streets round here. Some people first thought it was, shall we say, the prelude or ho’ d’oeuvre to having a baby, the first steps, or thrusts. But a more agricultural tone has taken hold.
Can anyone give us any good news?
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February 26th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Dagmar. Do they have a teepee in the garden?
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February 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
this is for you Alan
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February 27th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Drew Re: Mozz and Pom as you say i was implying sudden closure could (and i repeat COULD) be down to H&S issues or Environmental health - i’m not sure if notices have to be posted in such circumstances - from friends who work in licensing and Environmental health i understand many sudden closures due to “family reasons” “refurbishment” and “water leaks” are often actually enforced closures but this is all idle speculation - their sudden closure could be an entirely different reasons - cash flow maybe? - i know it’s been a difficult start to 2008 for many in the hospitality industry.
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February 27th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Looking good Marcissus - I’d say mid 40s.
Who decides what we ‘need’ I’m sure a Wetherspoons there would do a roaring trade.
Obviously I’d like to see it reopen as a Foxtons, Starbucks or Cafe Nero..
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February 27th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
@John - this is the TfL’s own works, but such are usually initiated by their regular contractors who identify something to be done that they just happen to have spare capacity to do. That’s the same all over, which is why the most effective community organisations concentrate on the way local authorities spend their main budgets.
The TfL take the hindmost, but the PriFis take the real meat (not that there’s any left in Camberwell now).
So narrow are the margins of the honest independent businesses who toil locally, that these pointless pavement perambulations may well have tipped the balance with MoziPom. Naturally, there is not even a token daily compensation rate for local businesses disrupted by their leisurely work.
Is it half ‘n hour already, Joe? Pass the coffee flask for a nice hot drink which we did not buy locally, would ye?
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February 27th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Alan - when it comes to licensign no one but the market decided “need” as Licensing law specifically forbids LA’s from considering “need” when awarding new licenses.
My point was that a Wetherspoons with its early openings and very cheap beer would possibly not be a good addition to an area already over burdened with cheap off licenses and problem drinkers.
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February 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
On the other hand, we do need somewhere to get fair trade, organic, coffee.
An alternative-style place, with handmade posters for yoga classes and stuff, would be ideal. Not sure I’d put it right on Camberwell junction though.
Sounds like the rents don’t support that kind of thing. Shame.
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February 27th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Sorta like that squatters center that closed down a while back. That was a cool.
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February 27th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Spring in the air.
Just went to get the kids from school. Couldn’t help notice the blossoms. Acacia, Hawthorn, Magnolia.
5:00pm and still light. Feels great.
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February 27th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
I can see that site being bought up by a coffee chain
I refuse to use those places not so much for reasons of anti-globalisation - It’s more a case of the quality of the product that they sell, which is in my humble opinion complete and utter cack
They use the worst possible grade of coffee (the stuff that used to be rejected as sub-standard and unfit for sale) and then mask the taste with lots of syrup and call it a “Valenciana” or some other stupid name and stick it in a 1 Litre cup - what size are they going to come up with next?
A mule bucket, perhaps?
But as long as enough mugs out there buy into it…
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February 27th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Ashford went past Warwick Gardens yesterday. That’s more like it, a local locomotive. There seem to have been no new locos built in the past 30 years. The new private railway companies seem to be flogging the old warhorses into the ground.
Talking of customer value, the Conway boys of Dartford - an excellent company all round - have begun installing the traffic lights on Camberwell Grove, so that Network Rail can dither about the proper repair of their bridge for another few years.
Musn’t grumble, though.
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February 27th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
“cack”
Music to my ears.
“Can I have a skinny vanilla mocha cackaccino to go please?”
Thank you you smooth talking barsteward.
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February 27th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Eh? Yes.
Conversation in Tigris Supermarket in the Aylesbury the other night:
MAD MAN: What’s going on?
SCARED MAN: I dunno, mate. What is going on?
MAD MAN: I dunno.
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February 28th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Big big holes in the road round here. Here’s why;
http://www.thameswater.co.uk/UK/region/en_gb/content/News/News_001385.jsp?SECT=Section_Homepage_000431
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February 28th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
“minimum disruption”
HA!
Our road looks more like a war zone everyday and what’s more, take away people are finding it increasingly hard to reach our house! Desperate times indeed…
They haven’t even had the manners to apologise for currently running 3 months late.
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February 28th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Flaxman?
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February 29th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Eastlake.
The main work is currently in Flaxman and Eastlake.The hole up the hill in Fawnbrake Avenue has a diameter the width of the road!
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February 29th, 2008 at 10:44 am
A friend was telling me about these works a couple of days ago. Said the holes are up to thirty metres deep.
That is deep.
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February 29th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Get down there and get it on flickr please..
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February 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Entirely off the deep hole topic, so apologies in advance: anyone recommend a good local plumber/heating engineer?
There’s a very good one who lives on my road, but he hasn’t returned any calls. Maybe I’ve inadvertently offended him. His van keeps on being parked in different places so I don’t think he’s away.
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February 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I can vouch for Yen Lin Chong in Herne Hill. Corgi registered, and reasonable rates. 020 8674 8617, 07798 530265.
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March 1st, 2008 at 8:08 am
Has any one else been attacked by squirrels at Ruskin Park before? I was there a fortnight ago and saw one running tentatively towards be as I stood admiring the view of the railway line. I thought nothing of it thinking it would just come far enough to beg for food then run off. Before I knew it I felt a scrabbling sensation on my leg and saw it trying to ascend me. I let out a girlish scream, shook my leg and ran off. It wasn’t so much scary as a surprise, but none the less I wouldn’t have been too pleased if it had got as far as my head.
By the way Dagmar you have mentioned in the past that you I believe some of the freight locomotives that pass Denmark Hill hark back to the days of BR. I have only ever seen 66s and 59s (which is what Vale of Pickering is). Care to share any additional gen you may have?
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March 1st, 2008 at 9:34 am
Complete random interuption - What is the name of the reclaimed furniture place in Kennington and where is it? I’m sure I read about it on here…
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March 1st, 2008 at 3:31 pm
MElR Don;t know about Kennington but in Camberwell there’s Morph on Camberwell Station Road about 100 metres down from Denmark Road on the right hand side.
I go in there about once a month and they often have some REAL bargains. Quite a bit of the furniture at S&D is from there including all the nicer outdoor furniture in the garden. Extreme bargains I can assure you!
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March 1st, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Duff (96) (I mean post 96 not locomotive type 96) I just like the fact that Camberwell has a great goods line bringing rumbling trains bearing vast amounts of aggregates to build the regenerating capital. Add to this, as a flight-path area, we have large numbers of aircraft up aloft really close up. Maybe it wasn’t angels Blake saw in Peckham Rye, it was beautiful silver aircraft. Then we have coaches of attractive people from other countries and 40-tonne lorries crammed with fruit on the way to New Covent Garden swaying our street lights - Camberwell is like living in a 1930s children’s encyclopedia illustration about modern achievement.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Spring Watch: cherry blossoms are out.
The sunshine is great. Sunday morning is usually alchoholics, junkies and church goers. The good weather got the normals out earlier this week. Makes it a great place to live.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm
“Operation Trident
Witness Appeal.
At around 1pm on Satruday 01/03/2008 shots were fired outsied the FLAXMAN SPORTS CENTRE, in CAREW STREET, SE5. A male was wounded in the incident. Pfficers from Operation Trident are appealing for information in reltion to this investigation.
Did you see or hear anything? Do you know anything that might assist the police?
Anyone who has any information about this matter is asked to contact Operation Trident urgently.
All information received will be treated confidentially. Please contact Operation Trident on 020 8785 8804 or 020 8785 8842, or alternatively call crime stoppers on 0800 555 111.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 7:44 pm
@ Mark (98) - cheers, that must be the place I’ve rad about on here. Thanks for that!
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March 2nd, 2008 at 7:49 pm
(98) Morph is fantastic, not only because you can pick up bargains but I also found the delivery to be a good deal cheaper and more convenient than anything I have experienced from the ‘Cattle Shed of Leather’ type places.
(99) You are right the trains are certainly an asset, I just wish there were greater variety. Village of Mells is a particular fave.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 8:33 pm
There is a report of the shooting at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7273362.stm
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Lowth road was cordoned off at both ends, as was Carew Street. Six police cars and four vans full of police were hanging around for quite a while waiting to be deployed. I asked some of them what was going on and they said they were waiting for information. Said they were from Kilburn. Not used to being this far south.
Didn’t hear or see anything though.
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March 2nd, 2008 at 11:32 pm
No-one seen or heard nuttin’, OK?
An’ our Prince ‘arry riskin’ ‘is life in Alfgarnistan, is a disgreece.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
@ 93
Alan, I stuck some photos of the devastation on my flickr last night, have a gander here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/red5standingby/sets/72157604024533630/
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March 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 am
Re: 101
i was in my flat at 1pm on Saturday and heard nothing - which is odd seeing how close i am to the Flaxman road sports centre.
However if the shots were fired there why did plod cordon off Lowth Road?
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March 3rd, 2008 at 11:59 am
Hannah…
Plod cordon Lowth Road - no idea. They work in mysterious ways.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
MORPH - forgot to mention Morph is not open on Saturday / Sunday which is mystifying. But there you go - not enough people know about it to make it worth opening on the weekend.
Delivery is a tenner no matter what you’re having delivered I think.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
They also don’t accept returns - even if you buy something which won’t fit in your house.
They will let you redonate it though. Big wow.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Florian (95) -
Thanks a lot, I’ll give him/her a call. My local plumber still ignoring me. Maybe my boiler is beneath him.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 7:52 pm
I’ve always been beneath my boiler - under her thumb. Boom Boom.
The Plough, or Jack Beard’s at the Plough as it was so romantically and unimaginatively named, is to be called Amaryllis Bar and Kitchen.
The furniture is from Indigo, heavy and chunky wood, with cube seats, there is at least one flat screen tv and mosaic behind the bar in orangey pinky red.
A LOT of money has been spent on it. And the workmanship is good. I’d say easily the most comprehensive pub refurbishment Camberwell has seen in thirty years.
I hope the food, drink service and welcome lives up to the input so far.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I’m sure Alan will be in there like a ferret up a drain pipe.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Like Superman.
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March 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Superman dat drainpipe. There is a totally burnt-out 4-door Ford Fiesta in the middle of Burgess Park that photographers might be interested in. The patterns on the oxidised bodywork are fascinating and the alloy wheels are partly melted. The windows have completed evaporated - the fire must have been intense. It’s interesting to see what makes up the shell of a car. The carcass sits well on the green grass.
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March 4th, 2008 at 10:02 am
BBC want to hear about V
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/image_galleries/greenwich_pools_gallery.shtml?6
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March 4th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Oops, last post should read;
BBC want to hear about Victorian Swimming Pools under threat. Accompanying pics include a pic of Camberwell Baths looking very fine.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/image_galleries/greenwich_pools_gallery.shtml?6
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March 4th, 2008 at 10:17 am
HEre’s another of the pool
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/1210665367_e29732fd01_b.jpg
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March 4th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Nice picture. I’ve been there quite a bit recently for various reasons. What an amazing interior.
There’s a charm to it that would be lost if they start installing electric glass sliding doors everywhere in the refurb.
I kind of like that it’s a bit shabby – hopefully it’s hygienically OK. Shudder.
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March 4th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
“We don’t superman no mo’we just spiderman dat ho’”
Not sure - I still haven’t tried O Galo that replaced Willow.
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March 4th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Morph used to be open on Saturdays. I asked the manager how come they stopped this practise. Cut backs apparently.
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March 4th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
re: Camberwell and Dulwich Baths
It’s so fantastic to see yet more tantalising evidence that the once mighty Camberwell Borough Council were responsible for two of the greatest bathing facilties in the whole of Londinium…
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March 9th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
My (mortified) wife and I were directed to your blog as she was the rather vocal mother-to-be in Gairloch Road.
Wasn’t actually a home birth. Just an over keen dad not wanting to get to the hospital too soon. Turned out to be rather prescient as it was another 8 hours and an emergency c-section before a bouncing baby boy was delivered. Wouldn’t fancy doing that in a wigwam.
The staff at Kings were great and mother and baby are fine
Anyway, my wife wanted to apologise for keeping anyone awake that night. Our healthly little baby boy is probably doing a reasonable job in the nuisance noise department as well, but hopefully not upsetting too many people. As for comparing my “baby making” capabilities with the onset of labour- well I am not sure whether to be flattered or not . But what is for sure is that there won’t be the chance for further comparison for atleast another 3 months…
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March 9th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
@musher - welcome, and congratulations on the new Camberwellian. I live on the corner of Gairloch Rd, and I didn’t hear anything, so it can’t have been too loud.
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March 10th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Congrats Musher. Way to go Mrs Musher.
Curious. Why Musher? Is that a black-cab-driver term?
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March 10th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Nothing that exciting I’m afraid. Just combination of initial and surname,which crops up on work email and seems to have stuck
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March 10th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Got it. I’m reading this, frankly unfinishable, book by Will Self about how survivors of the apocalypse find a book — “The Book of Dave” — written by a bitter and uptight London cab driver and base their religion and social conventions on it.
The word Musher crops up quite a lot. It seems to be some kind of cab-driver slang.
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March 10th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Funky new comment system Peter. Haven’t seen this before.
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March 10th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Congratulations, Mr & Mrs Musher. What controversy that caused in the Dagmar household! “No she’s not, she’s ‘avin’ a baybee!” Lots of effing & blinding, then the realisation that this might go on all night. All night long. Good effort, though. A career in films awaits Mrs Musher when she has recovered from the farmyard aspects of motherhood in a few year’s time.
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March 10th, 2008