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Welcome to the Camberwell Online blog, a place for free and spirited exchange on anything with even a tangential connection to the South-East London district.
And here’s the stuff I was going to post
Published by Peter | Filed under Development, Events, Nearby
Herne Hill has a new baker’s shop. I realise that we don’t live in Herne Hill, but I mention it because I passed there a few weeks ago and I noticed that there is a row of shops with a baker’s, a grocer’s, a fishmonger’s, a butcher’s and a delicatessen all next to each other. It’s what I dream of having in Camberwell. Here’s an article from the Guardian, also not about Camberwell, but about the balancing act of regenerating an area without pricing existing residents out, which is what I believe we face here.
News from around; it seems that we had our own little Cans Festival here, on Camberwell Passage. You can go down and see some of the artworks still, I believe.
I had a somewhat boozy few games of pool in the Cadeleigh recently, and promised Mary (the landlady) that I would mention that Dermot (the landlord) scored a hole-in-one at golf. He is very proud, apparently.
Lots of websites: Loughborough Junction looks to be the result of one man trying to promote the area to increase his house’s value (not your friend the piano man is it, Alan?). Sorry, that was quite mean of me; it’s actually a look at places and services around the titular area. People’s Republic of Southwark is a migraine-inducing site with social and environmental tips and articles; Creative Camberwell Network is a hub for artistic endeavours in SE5.
The SE5 Forum website is back online at the correct address now, although I have some stuff I need to do to rescue it completely. No, I’m not the admin again, I’m just a caretaker manager.
I had some other news which I kept reminding myself to write down, and didn’t, and forgot. Again.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
For someone who’s so forgetful you’re really together you know Peter.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:36 am
Not the Piano Seller.
I think it is an attempt to court further gentrification in the area. Why not?
Had dinner at the Dark Horse on Saturday because we couldn’t get in to Seymour Bros Thai. Seems that the secret is out.
Nevertheless enjoyed my DH experience. Will try to go again on a Monday or Tuesday to grab a bargain version of the same.
Otherwise I’ve been drinking in the Canning a couple of times this weekend. Seems they’re doing well.
Also went to the Nunhead Cemetry thing Dagmar mentioned. Great place. Eldest child described it as walking in a dark forest. We were actaully glad of the drizzle that kept the crowds to a steady throng.
Bought a new table in Morph (Camberwell Station Road) this week too. Bargain vintage retro thing.
What else? What else do you need?
May 21st, 2008 at 8:07 am
That is a rather splendid parade of shops. Very well heeled is Herne Hill. The shops pick up the commuter trade. The Bakers in Herne Hill (Blackbird) has just opened a place in Grove Vale, near East Dulwich Station. This is part of Alan Dale’s Camberwell anschluss.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:25 am
All I ask is that the border is observed but that cross border communication and trade is encouraged.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:53 am
Herne Hill is so called because it is a bugger to ride up. The village is indeed nice, Peter, so nice that a major high street bank upped and offed from the high street after being robbed too many times. The off-licence told me that. They had been robbed so many times they now have a push-button whirlygig system to get in. Still, I agree, the village is peaceful after the through-put frenzy of central Camberwell.
Tulse Hill village just further on is less nicey, in fact somewhat crazy. But the Geranium Shop for the Blind is a lot more entertaining the Herne Hill’s rather stuck-up, probably will be, Oxfam. Tulse Hill has the poorest Somerfield even we’ve ever seen and the most run-down, daytime person’s pub.
Past that, Snorbury is a medicated suburban fantasy, with the whiff of the Brighton Road in its nostrils, and Biggin Hill and the south beckoning.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:36 am
That Hill is a swine. Up from Camberwell is worst, where the road surface would have Lance Armstrong getting off to push. Best thing about Herne Hill is its proximity to the peerless Brockwell park, and of course the lido; open from today for the summer season.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:11 am
Tried and failed to get into the Seymour Bros Thai on Saturday as well Alan. Still to try it. Really good or just too small anyone?
Went to Hoa Viet instead. Not good.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am
Hoa Viet seems to have lost the plot recently. Overpowering smell of furniture polish / mothballs when we were there on Sunday. Salted chilli squid still tasted great though must have been full of MSG as I was buzzing and gulping water all night.
Seymour Bros Thai has a dish called Angry Lamb. It is very good.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:59 am
Just to clarify: I don’t mean that I would like Camberwell to be like Herne Hill; obviously they are vastly different in many ways. What I meant was that I would like to have that small range of shops, which we don’t have here; ok, we have Sophocles for bread, Cruson for veg, Wing Tai for fish, but no butcher and no deli. If I don’t want to shop in Somerfield - which I don’t - I have to travel miles to get my basics.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:15 am
Deli alert! In my (not) glamorous media job, I found myself at the plush (not) studios of Richard and Judy recently. There is a new deli in Kennington Cross just across from the studios called Franklin\’s with lovely meats. And a new hair dresser where I got a new media type hairdo!
May 21st, 2008 at 11:44 am
Seymour Thai is a bit hit and miss if you ask me. Last time I went there we were told they only had red or green curry mains. The three of us ordered curries with rice then, after we’d eaten starters, were told there was only one rice left so we had to have noodles. On another previous visit they had ran out of tofu.
As for Hoa Viet, I think it’s great although I basically order the same two things every time so I haven’t been too adventurous with the menu.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:54 am
Food in SeymourThai is good but they are limited by the facilities- it’s a sandwich shop after all - but they do well in spite of this. What makes it unique is the seeming secrecy and laid back ambience. Combine that with the now apparent exclusivity and we might have the most exciting Thai experience around.
Sri Thai has gone bust though- hence the dark horse. I like Hoa Viet but I rarely get to choose. Buddha Jazz is less Camberwell in its style- it’s all modern, swanky and clean but that can be forgiven given the proximity to ED and the need to lure the young professional set up the hill.
I am tempted to try the Eastern tree. That’s not very yuppy at all but potentially good on the food front. Very Camberwell indeed. A rare triumph of substance over style.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Sri Thai looks like it has had a fire. Anyone know the story? Eastern Tree is good and the staff lovely. When they tell you a dish is hot it is VERY hot. They took the building over from the horrible Coast Bar who were responsible for the MDF Tyrolean stylings.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:37 pm
@6 Florian
Would appreciate a water temperature update of the Lido from anyone.
As a kid swimming on the south coast, I recall threshold tolerance was around 58 deg F. generally arriving late April. I don’t want to visit the Lido until this is equalled or exceeded! By comparison, most indoor heated municipal pools seem to hover around 80 deg F. these days.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
As much Lido news as you can handle is to be found at http://www.onionbagblog.blogspot.com. The pool’s always damn cold in my experience, until the wee and sun warms it up at about 4pm.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Very good source suggesting Boris plans:
- Tram is dead
- Tube will expand - something about Bakerloo joining up with a split Northern Line creating a stop at Louborough Junction (may call it Lambeth South), then Brixton then further South
- Buses with more security and routemasters for Camberwell (feels it is too central for train station and too close to oval/elephant/peckham for its own tube)
- Kennington to serve as spur for new lines including one to Battersea
Look for it!
May 21st, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I would be very surprised if that planned tube extension comes off - especially as the London Overground will cover similar areas.
I also suspect the Routemaster promise maybe quietly forgotten about.
I would be intrigued about the extra security on buses - how will this be funded - it can’t all be funded from cancelling the Londoner! - especially seeing as they may be a potential funding gap if the Mayor does indeed cancel the West End extension of the CC charge.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jaNJ8Gl1amTgo5wLGjsazLAM6t6g
May 21st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Is the S&D showing the football tonight?
May 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Actually the TfL plan makes sense, sort of. I suspect a lot of funding will come from private developers, which is the trend. I’ve heard about the Battersea bit and heard it’s the same sort of deal going on over in Fulham - partially funded by property developers.
It also follows suit. Camberwell has been overlooked for tube because the figures clearly show most people would still prefer the bus due to lower fares. And it is only a short distance to major stations at Elephant. Extending Bakerloo/Northern close to each other (instead of the Tram) is about relieving congestion on the current Northern Line. The Tram was about that and the Peckham branch was the beneficiary.
Boris has said the Olympics should not be primarily about ‘regenerating’ East London and so in tune with the Guardian article, he’s not for huge public works projects that ‘regenerate’ by pricing out locals. A tube here would do that.
So it seems a good plan and a win win for all political walks of life. Better buses here but not investing heavily to make Camberwell another Clapham. Finally extending the Bakerloo south in a way that meets needs of the majority of commuters who will use it. And tapping developers to pay up for their huge profits by directly investing in public services (as opposed to silly section 106 funds that give gov’t control meaning it never goes anywhere and the money dries up).
May 21st, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Seems to me like Boris is shafting us already.
The Tube is a terrible method of transport — who wants to be voluntarily underground?
May 21st, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I do like the Brixton Lido, though — used to go to Yoga as well as swim there.
It’s all part of the same general area to me — not like these kids who gang fight by postcode. What’s that about?
Like Alan Dale says, cross border communication and commerce is all good.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:51 pm
New Road i was just questioning how he would get the tube built following the collapse of Metronet and the huge finance there are already on the tube.
The Jubilee line cost so much to build all other non emergency maintainence was cancelled - this is why there is so much engineering work now.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Butterfly Tennis Club is having an official re-opening on Monday 2 June at 4.30pm. St George’s have been persuaded to provide strawberries and cream, and you can have a look at the new clubhouse-oops information centre. There’s also an Open Day on Sunday 8 June from 12.30-2.30 to bash a tennis ball about, sign up for coaching, and even join the tennis club.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:51 am
There will be another Hippy Mother Club gig on 6 June at Dulwich Hamlet, all manner of bands, all on one night.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
@ 13 Sri Thai had a fire about a month ago and has been closed since. Presumably it will reopen - there seemed to be builder type people in there the other day when I went past.
Herne Hill is interesting as like Camberwell it straddles the two boroughs but strong organisations like the Herne Hill Forum http://hernehillforum.blogspot.com/ have done a very good job of bringing the community together and ensuring that the authorities on both sides of the border take note. The HH Forum is actually what I think the SE5 Forum should be like - campaigning, meeting regularly, holding the statutory services to account by for example commenting on planning applications, liaising with local police and ensuring that councillors from all sides take note of local opinion, not just a place for a few people to talk among themselves .
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:27 am
Agreed Mumu. Forum is dissappointing and no one seems to know what’s going on. Even Mark has gone silent.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
Whilst he/she is clearly well informed, I couldn’t agree less with a lot of what newroad has to say. What’s so special about Camberwell’s low income population that they should go without the improved opportunities that come with quick, dependable transport infrastructure? And what about the local traders and key institutions?
The logical conclusion to newroad’s argument is that no station should open anywhere for fear of “pricing out locals”. Or again is there something special about Camberwell’s less well off?
Most of us are here because we like it. The idea that we can protect what we like by resisting meaningful change is naive.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Mumu and New road. Quick reply as a board member of the SE5 Forum - NB this is my personal reply and not an offical one from the SE5 Forum.
I would agree that we “appear” to be inactive currnelty but that is far from the case. Setting up and running an effective community organisation is hard work and harder work than any of us really anticipated. Currently we are doign a lot of work on the boring but important stuff to ensure we have coirrect management structures in place and that we - all of us being volunteers - can ensure that projects can be carried out and we can manage our work and finances properly. This is essential if the organisation is to be effective, accountable and have a long shelf life. Too many organisations collapse through poor organisation and lack of funds once the inital momentum and enthusiasm has run its course. It may be frustrating for those on the outside but beleive me this work is very important and will be of great benefit in the long run.
We will be holding another public meeting very soon to present what we have been doing - so please come along!
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
New Road, as I have argued elsewhere, reopening Camberwell Rail Station for freight and leisure purposes would not cause house prices to rise, because transport only does this in inner city London if it affects the 9-5 commute. Yet it would regenerate the area with new visitors and opportunities for local entrepreneurs.
Chancellor Darling just had an emergency meeting with the supermarket chiefs to discuss the rising price of food. To paraphrase ex-President Clinton, it’s the distribution network, stupid. Stop subsidising free supermarket parking with planning laws, and ploughing the bulk of transport investment into the roads, and you’ll get a more efficient one. Hopefully, this will make it into the Camberwell Vision.
Meanwhile, did anyone notice the cycle helmet stunt at the GLA meeting yesterday? - an embarrassingly poor use of scrutiny opportunities to continue demonising cyclists. Ditch the tribalism, please, and work for the area’s real interests.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:07 pm
OK, I’m going to brave the Tulse Hill Somerfield to do some panic buying on my way home from work this evening. I hope to live to report back. Will I need one of those Zimbabwean zillion dollar notes?
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Hoa Viet is defo slipping. I don’t go there much any more.
Seymour Thai is nice and boho but the food really isn’t that good.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
“Seymour Thai is nice and boho but the food really isn’t that good.” — exactly right
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Hannah, good post. I know nothing about local government or (I’m ashamed to say) local campaigning… but getting the structure of an organisation right is clearly the best place to start.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
What is the world coming to if normally biddable Thai people stop serving us grub just because their restaurant is burning down around them? Can’t they urge their langoustines to leap flame-grilled onto our plates?
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thanks D man - good but not very well spelt
There are many quick wins and issues to be tackled in Camberwell and the SE5 Forum could have waded right in but we have to be organised and have good structures, hopefully we are nearly there.
Also as anyone who has been involved in community groups will tell you this is long haul stuff not quick fixes - it’s often a case of one step forward two steps back but hang in there we are making progress.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Re: Camberwell Station; has anybody else noticed that it doesn’t actually exist anymore? The station entrance is gone, and there’s barely a trace of platform left. It wouldn’t be a simple case of refurbishing and reopening, it would involve rebuilding. Call me pessimistic, but I just can’t see it happening.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:59 pm
So pleased to have been found online in such a short time (for what ever reason)! We have greatly enjoyed putting together loughboroughjunction.com and I hope that it will provide some benefit for the area. It is an immensely undervalued part of London and frankly its reputation need revising and bringing up to date. If anyone has any relevant sites to propose for inclusion please let us know.
Thank you,
Nick
loughboroughjunction@yahoo.com
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:16 am
SE5 Forum
I have fallen silent becaase I stood down from chair in January because of many needs: the Forum needed a chair who would take it to its next stage of development; as Hannah has explained above. A lot of work has been done and Laurence Benson, the new chair, has been seeing it through this important process. You would all be impressed if you could have seen what’s been happening. This bodes well for the long term future of the Forum and although tough and perhaps at times seemingly tedious, absolutely necessary.
I am concentrating on Camberwell business which, frankly had to begin with my concentrating on aspects of my own business first as it has been under threat of closure because of potentially calamitous costs of a rent review case that has been going on for over two and a half years.
On the voluntary side I’ve been involved, as Se5 Forum’s business representative, with Neighbourhood Renewal on an important project developing the groundwork for a permanent weekly Arts, Crafts and General Produce market for Camberwell.
The Forum website is under the cosh for a complete rebuild which should make it more responsive and interactive and a better tool for helping develop community participation in Camberwell’s long term regeneration.
If you’re disappointed with the Forum; get in touch; get involved and help. Some people actually do get involved you know.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:49 am
Toff Dungoody. Attlee was the greatest, but you can’t dine out on the minimum wage forever.
Although I have no official role there, I am keen to see the Forum succeed. I echo Mark’s encouragement for people to contact SE5 Forum and get involved. Attend committee meetings, which are basically reporting sessions on what each Board member is up to. These committee meetings are announced in advance on http://www.se5forum.org.
In particular, there is a big shortage of IT/website help. Non-technical people urgently required to assist with updating, sorting or contributing topical information and pictures and writing articles.
Peter - fantastic job on the site; the search feature is working again.
May 23rd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Diane Abbott was great on Desert Island Discs, though. As long as Labour have bright brains like her, they will win. Toffs do not inspire trust - that is not the point of the toff. The toff is inherently, indeed, hereditarily dodgy.
Tulse Hill Somerfield is OK. I bought 2 packs of New Zealand Coxes, 3 packs of new potatoes, 2 packs of tomatoes, 1 pack of satsumas and 4 cobble rolls all for £2.86 from their “reduced” trolley. To think the crisp, zingy Coxes had come all the way from New Zealand to this unassuming to say the least part of south London… The aisles are long and cool. You come out blinking in the sunshine to see the White Hart opposite. This legendary downmarket boozer was once offered a grant to do itself up but declined. The flightpath of the STOL aircraft from City Airport is right overhead. The hedgefundmen pass over aloft as though the whole of the 21st Century was bypassing Tulse Hill.
May 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Donkey rides at a fete on the Albrighton estate today apparently.
Worth a foray across the border into SE22?
May 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Sorry I can’t remain silent anymore. It is quite disingenuous and downright unfair that over the past three years, anytime someone dares to question the SE5 Forum we get the same template of an answer:
1 Empathise but don’t apologise (eg I know it must seem things are not happening..)
2 Be vague but confident things are happening of great importance (eg we’re building foundations vital to make us strong)
3 Remind everyone you are volunteers (subtly suggesting you are immune from scrutiny) (eg we are all volunteers here)
4 Turn the tables by suggesting the questioner is uninvolved, uncaring and thus the real villan (eg some people do try and make things better)
The Forum started more than four years ago holding its first public meeting more than three years ago. I’ll address the points above with what I think gives us valid reasons for demanding progress.
1 Things are not happening and the truth is you got it wrong for nearly three years. Someone should just admit it. We will be more understanding if someone just admits it didn’t go smoothly.
2 While I’m all for building strong foundations, come on. It shouldn’t take four years to bond a team and get decision making into place. (See point 1)
3 Yes you are all volunteers, but the Forum is been somewhat arrogant in demanding it be THE group in charge of changing Camberwell and actively urging other groups to hold off. It has not helped any local efforts on any front but has (sometimes loudly) thrown stones at other efforts. And yes, those efforts were by volounteers too. And the Forum has received a great deal of local funding for volunteers that could’ve gone elsewhere. If you are going to set yourselves up as the main group and take money, you should be accountable regardless of whether you are volunteers or not.
4 A lot of other people and groups have been busy doing things that people will touch, see and feel while you’ve spent time and money doing ‘the boring stuff’. Again fine to teambuild, but we could’ve planted a lot of trees with the public money you’ve wasted to date. It wouldn’t fundamentally change Camberwell but it’s more progress than what you’ve accomplished.
My wife and I have lived here for a long time. I love Camberwell and have done a lot of volunteer time to try and improve it. A while back we realised it is what it is and we like it. We’d like less chaos, crime and anti-social behaviour on the streets but we get a good deal in other ways. I don’t have a bone to pick with the Forum, but if I did, as others do, we should all be able to demand answers and not be patronised with the above ‘template’ answer.
Go back on this and the Forum website for three years. You’ll see the same answer over and over. At some point, you have to do something or call it a day.
May 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Why would you want the Bakerloo to run from Elephant to Loughborough Junction!? Doesn’t Thameslink already do this exact route and the (very little) “overcrowding” on this line will be alleviated when the stations are rebuilt to accommodate longer trains as is happening already through funding for a full line upgrade? I suspect Tfl insider may actually be another Loughbourgh Junction property speculator.. which is fair enough (I would do the same). On the other hand I wouldn’t put this dumb idea past Boris build a tube to a no mans land which is already well served and leave ancient, important and heavily populated Camberwell town centre to rot!?.. A tube doesn’t spell the end of buses for god sake it just gives residents choice (fast, smelly, expensive travel vs slow, sick-inducing, gang dominated, cheap travel)
May 25th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Last chance to see the Duchamp pissoir at Tate Modern tomorrow.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
There is a masterplan for transport in Camberwell and the tube is not part of it. Car ownership is to be illegal, whatever one’s circumstances. So the only choice is to travel by bus, alighting outside McDonalds. From there our consumer instincts can come out with a vengeance with all the splendid items on offer for a pound. Every journey must pass through Camberwell Green at one point. This part of the strategy is nearly complete. The reopening of Camberwell Grove could have been a setback but work has thankfully been halted.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Odd that there is no down hill cycle lane in the new Camberwell Grove arrangement. As if cyclists are going to wait patiently for the oncoming cars to pass without mounting the kerb.
Crap design. Plenty of room for two way bicycle traffic.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:09 am
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/2506946256/in/set-72157605149248927/
Love it!
May 26th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Je suis un photographe.
Je suis une photographie.
Ah.
May 26th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
“Diane Abbott was great on Desert Island Discs, though. As long as Labour have bright brains like her, they will win.”
Your Situationist humour has reached its apotheosis, Dagmar. Nothing more can be said that will top this statement for its sheer wilful insanity. You may now retire gracefully from the field.
May 26th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
@42… There were donkeys at the Goose Green Fair the other weekend.
Anyone seen the new show at South London Gallery? Any thoughts? My kids accidentally sent the crystal balls flying across the room. That added to the spectacle… Made me wonder if they did it accidentally-on-purpose.
Overall not a bad show… Not pushing the boundaries but worth a look.
May 26th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
They’ve painted the outside of The Old Dispensary. Oh, the suspense!
May 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Norman, greetings from Dagmar, Grace and Maude. Diane was good on Discs, but you are right, the Nasty Party will be in for years and years. The Duchamp pissoir says it all, or in the words of my small daughter in the Tate Modern bog today, “Come out, poo, leave home.”
May 28th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Anybody know the fate of Kennedy’s
http://www.southlondonpress.co.uk/tn/News.cfm?id=7871
May 28th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
@ Newroad
Yeah, that’s sad. Walked past and some numpty’s bolted on the ubiquitous steel shutters and a flimsy wooden door. What a joke. Some piece of crap’ll replace it no doubt.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Just to clarify, the Bakerloo line will go from Lambeth North to Kennington then on down the current northern line. The Northern line will pick up from kennington and go to Loughborough then new stations south. In other words, Bakerloo line will no longer go to Elephant.
As for the poor and choice, I think the point is the statistics show huge numbers of commuters in Camberwell prefer a bus only pass now (cost) and wouldn’t take up a tube pass even if a station opened. It’s not unfair, it’s just economics. Meanwhile folks a little further west are overcrowded and pay for full tube passes.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
If Bakerloo Line is extended the most logical and cost effective way to do it is Elephant to Peckham (with stations at Walworth and Camberwell Green in between - this would then leave the option for perhaps an extension to New Cross,Deptford and Lewisham at a later date?
The East London Line/Overground extension will go through Denmark Hill to Clapham High Street/Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction - opening a station at Loughborough Junction would be a superb idea - it’s a dormant but potentially invaluable transport interchange of the future, and it would continue the impressive improvement of the area in recent years - surely nobody can feel nostalgic for how it used to be a few years ago?
If Battersea and Wandsworth were to get a tube extension - then the logical thing to do would be to open a branch of the Victoria Line from Vauxhall or Stockwell and this could perhaps in future extend towards Streatham and Croydon…
May 29th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Tflinsider, WTF are you on?
Are you the new jonnyM trolling for reaction?
“As for the poor and choice, I think the point is the statistics show huge numbers of commuters in Camberwell prefer a bus only pass now (cost) and wouldn’t take up a tube pass even if a station opened. It’s not unfair, it’s just economics.” — what kind of BS is that? Unbelievable.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:29 am
TfLAgitProp, have you considered the following:
1. significant levels of car ownership in surrounding residential streets is evidence of suppressed demand for a far more efficient kind of local public transport (whether train or tube); and
2. that the decision by many to go for bus passes is based partly on the credit crunch and partly on distaste for a double transport transaction, by which I mean both waiting for the bus and the descent into the Northern Line or the ‘Loo?
There are only two reasons the tube may not go ahead in Camberwell: (1) cost and (2) the fear that it would be so oversubscribed that the Bakerloo would go into meltdown. If the public debate were more straightforward about this, the campaign could move onto the real issues of contractor accountability and value, and the potential capacity of both tube and train to run more regular trains given significant investment in infrastructure.
It would also be appreciated if you did not continue the habit of the old administration of ascribing certain cliched habits to the poor in deprived areas. Even on minimum wage, the tube is an effective economy over the bus given the time taken.
May 29th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
People in Camberwell are poor because they buy bus passes and own cars because there is no tube?? Come on Regenguru you are not making any sense.
If TFL had surveyed Camberwell Commuter habits surely it would be before they decided where to extend the tube and before the recent credit crunch.
Regenguru you are probably right it will no happen at Camberwell be because of cost.
And if it does come to Loughborough Junction it will be long after I will be able to access the stairs with my zimmer frame. East London Extension took at least 15 years to get going and is not finished yet.
May 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
The credit crunch has led to an increase in the purchase of bus passes???
I also blame it for
- Boris winning
- Chelsea losing
- England missing out on the Euro Finals
oh, and my cat acquiring a taste for duck
May 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
The poor/no tube article doesn’t really stand up if you look at both Muswell Hill and Crouch End in North London both wealthy areas with no tube.
The tube had a large factor in me moving to Camberwell. The lack of one makes it slightly more affordable to live in and also i’m not a big fan of the tube (don’t like being underground!) and seeing as i only work at Aldwych i am perfectly happy using the bus to get around. i thinkl if we had a tube i’d still use the us for my main journeys - cheaper and also better for my general health i think!
May 29th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Well Sg its not a stupid as it sounds.
When ever i move i take in transport costs as well as housing costs. In teh past one of my responses to rent rises has been to economise on travel in camberwell you can save about £30 per month by switching from tube to bus.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Hannah @ 63
You have a point - A lot of people who work in the City and Clerkenwell have the 35,45 bus route and an 8 minute Thameslink service from Loughborough Junction into Blackfriars then Farringdon
They choose to live in Camberwell because it’s a quick commute to work and they get more value for money concerning property
South London may be a strange Jambalaya of architectural styles but the private housing is as good and in many cases far more attractive than anything in North London - It’s just our high streets that scare all the snobs away…and I think we all kind of like it that way, it’s our little secret
May 29th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Whatever the truth, I’ve long thought if we could make it clear the tube ain’t comin to Camberwell for at least 20 years (or more) would help settle down a lot of fly-by-night campaigners. It’s the plain truth.
Shame about the tram. I did read something this week so maybe the insider is truly inside.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:41 am
The cost of the Tram could pay for the Bakerloo Line and East London Line Extension and have plenty change left over…
May 30th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Speaking of the tube today and tomorrow are your last chances to drink alcohol on the underground and buses before the ban comes in on 1 June.
Although not normally a public transport drinker I will be taking beer with me to mourn our loss of freedom. Of course the ban does not apply to network rail so journeys to and from Loughborough Junction and Denamrk Hill are not affected - trebles all round!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Only downside is Tram would plug a ‘black hole’ worse than any other spot in the area and compliment Aylesbury/Elephant/Peckham projects. Bakerloo extension a good idea but won’t happen for 20 years or so. No reason for it to really. East London phase 1 is going ahead. Phase connecting to Louborough unnecessary and bad idea.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Hannah @ 63
Fair enough, though the fact it has supposedly taken something like the cc for people to realise that perhaps paying £8 (?) return for a combined bus / tube journey say from Camberwell to Old Street was poor vfm compared to £2 for a return bus journey on an Oyster card surprises me.
And I suppose there are some who would still pay it whatever the state of the economy - given the difference in overall journey times.
Personally, I quit using public transport a year ago and have travelled to and from Camberwell to Old Street by scooter. Total cost £5 a week for petrol. Journey time 20 minutes.
And it will become even quicker once Boris opens up bus lanes to motorbikes.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Motorbikes already use bus lanes. Damn dangerous to encourage them further. Runners should be allowed to use bus lanes.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
SG it only costs that much for transport if you don’t use an Oyster card - combined bus and tube on Oyster is around £3 - probably less if you get a season ticket - i pay £50 a month for my bus pass and i get teh bus at least twice a day which based on a 30 day month makes it about 80p a journey (much less usually becuase i frequently get more than two buses a day.)
My point was that more people use the bus when money is tight as whatever from you buy your tickets in the bus is always cheaper than the tube.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
We use the buses, which are sometimes frustrating but on the whole we like being above ground. We wouldn’t use the tube if it came, nor the Tram (too far away). I do think it is a very small group of transient people who fight for a tube. On the whole Camberwell works for what it is. Any major changes would price too many out. We’ve mellowed in our moaning and take it for an affordable oasis with it’s challenges as the price. Negotiate those challenges and you’ll be content in Camberwell without any need to campaign.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Florian, I agree with all your points. Enforcement is key whatever the policy. Cyclist box occupation by motor vehicles at red lights should be 3 points, automatically. Many would lose their licence just on the way into work, and quite rightly. And no, scoots and bikes are not honorary cyclists for this purpose.
newroad, as I cycle everywhere the Tube is not a big deal for me, since I too would not use it. However, if it was introduced as a bargain for massively decreased local on-street car storage (locals would have to vote for this bargain), I’d welcome it. With carbon allowances and trading on their way, this could happen. I’d also like some honesty from planners that it is a cost issue so that no-one can lazily rubber-stamp another tube refusal in 15 years time on the assumption that there is “still no demand”.
Camberwell Rail is what should be opened in the short term. It would regenerate whole sectors of badlands in-between itself and Coldharbour Lane, Camberwell Road, the Green and the New Road through increased pedestrian traffic. They planned to reopen it, cost was negligible and not an issue, and the plan was only halted because of Network Rail’s argument that a commuter service would interfere with LBJ. The possibility that Camberwell had a local daytime economy was not considered.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Regeneguru no one ever doubted you were an avid cyclcists. I think that shines through. Further, I’m not sure that if you repeat your argument 100 times it will make people warm to it anymore, but god bless you for trying.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:03 pm
tfl insider; your comments are interesting. i do not agree with your rationale that poor people chose the bus by preference. the critical factor is we have no option and the bus is time inefficient. the bus journey from camberwell adds 15-20min each way onto commute, most passengers seem to interchange at vauxhall for the tube; it is easy to justify paying tube fares for a new tube link to avoid this daily grind. btw; each bus i catch is overcrowded and unpleasant and driven by drivers that seem to make their own rules with regards to when or if they will stop at a bus stop and allow passengers to board - something again the tube avoids. we deserve better
May 31st, 2008 at 5:29 pm
I am reading a book called “The Lost Rivers of London” by N.J Barton
Apparently there is an underground river called “The Earls Sluice” which runs from Denmark Hill across the Green along Walworth Road and tails off to the right at the junction of Albany Road and Burgess Park…
So maybe a Bakerloo line tube extension would be slightly more complicated - unless it was routed down Old Kent Road and then re-directed towards the Green and Peckham - then East Camberwell would get the badly needed transport connection that they have always needed
Just think how lovely London would have been if only a handful of these rivers had been kept intact and as nature intended?
Hurrah! - Mother Nature always helps the people but do we appreciate it? - sadly, never
May 31st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Easy intrepid. If you want better move elsewhere. Most people don’t think transport is bad here. Or we recognise that if it were better we couldn’t afford to live here. You need only move slightly west or north to get within tube land. IF you tell me you can’t afford to, then I have proven my point.
‘Deserve better’ and yet, as you point out, the huge number of people ’round here who are the true misery of the journey.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:06 am
Mreberman
Good that you finally broke your rank and said something. Template. Answer. Try and try again. Poor wee timorous beastie.
How’s the weather been in SE5?
It’s been lovely in Northumberland.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
“Earls Sluice” euuw.
June 1st, 2008 at 5:02 pm
anyone know how I get in contact with the new chair of the SE5 Forum?
June 1st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Jubilee: Please get in touch with Barbara Pattinson. You probably have her contact details already.
June 1st, 2008 at 9:25 pm
newroad; my choice to live in camberwell has nothing to do with affordability but due to my businesses being located in surrey and kent and hence location. your assumptions of affordability dont apply to all that live here. deserve better refers not to miserable people but to the misery of not knowing if the only available public transport option will allow you to board…when the tube doors open you can board. when a bus arrives at a stop it can be a matter of luck if the driver allows those patiently waiting to board.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am
I agree with you, intrepid. I sometimes think the likes of you and I are made to feel like pariahs for wanting greater public transport choice. God help you if you admit to owning a car! Mind you, there won’t be a tube station in my lifetime so my hopes are on reopening the train station. If that happens, I’m more than happy to retain the option of the bus for everyone who enjoys it so much.
The argument for some seems to go that bus-only is best because it makes living in Camberwell cheap. I have sympathy for everyone struggling with the cost of living at the moment, but preventing progress seems a pity. If that is the way things are going to be then so be it, but don’t then complain about all the awful shopping, drunks and antisocial behaviour. It comes with the territory.
For the record, I mostly enjoy living in Camberwell and support local stores and activities. But my philosophy is to live and let live, however you like to travel. I certainly wouldn’t tell someone to sling their hook because they find the bus unsettling!
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
I don’t think anyone is actively against having a tube in Camberwell - i just think some of us disagree that because it is mainly served by buses that Camberwell has poor public transport, i use the buses becuase it is cheaper and actually from Camberwell to Aldwych (home to work for me) bus is the most effiecent route. I would be happy to see the bakerloo line extended but i don’t think that’s really going to happen, so I would welcome a tram in Cambwerwell.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I drive a car.
I want a bicycle but have nowhere to store one.
I like getting buses. Generally they seem to work quite well in Camberwell.
I want a tube station here.
I want another train station here.
Camberwell has a population of around 45,000 and nowhere near enough services for such a lot of people.
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
When is the end of term art college drinks outside the Hermit’s Cave thing happening?
Anyone know?
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Mark: thanks, I will send Barbara an email. Is she the secretary of SE5 Forum, and the right person to get in touch with to organise meetings etc? Butterfly Tennis Club re-opens today at 4.30pm, and there’s also an Open Day on Sunday 8 from 12.30 and I wanted to invite as many local people as possible, and can’t work out the SE5 Forum website at the mo.
There’s free ice cream, and everyone is welcome, but be warned that you might have to join in the Round the Courts Keepy Uppy record breaking attempt.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:23 pm
On the pull, Alan?
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Jubilee, the wife and I will come down. We’re big fans of the club and are happy to see the St George development give you a boost too.
Intrepid, I mean no harm. But I suspect there are places (perhaps slightly further out) where you can drive easily to your businesses and get into London with a tube/train. If I hear you, you would like to see buses improve, which is fair enough. But we won’t get the tube and really I’ve understood why and accept it.
Mark, get your wishlist and you’ll see Camberwell become what The Guardian article railed against. Great for those of us who own property here, but hardly good for the huge number who rent. And for the majority here who live in council owned properties and need to shop/eat/live without Waitrose and overpriced shops taking over.
Love it or leave it sounds a bit harsh. But I mean it in the nicest way possible. If you don’t love Camberwell for what it is now, you are destined to be miserable. So relax and enjoy it. It’s a pretty nice place.
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:57 pm
I wanted to join in the public transport debate, because I feel I can add something to it. I work for one of the National Rail companies, so have a handle on some of the recent developments.
For those of you that are really keen on getting Camberwell Station re-opened, now is probably the best time to apply pressure and have some chance of success. For over 20 years, no new National Rail stations were opened in the London area, but that changed with the redevelopment of the West London Line from Clapham Junction to Willesden Jn (the service was re-instated, Kensington Olympia and West Brompton were opened and there’s a new station at Shepherds Bush on the way) and Mitcham Eastfields (between Streatham and Mitcham Junction) looks to open in the next 3-4 weeks.
Capacity is a major problem on the Thameslink route between City Thameslink and Wimbledon (which is the line that Camberwell sits on). It’s already overfull in the rush hour, so that makes opening a new station less attractive unless they can get more train paths in (and I suspect that may not be possible). I have my own views on whether this idea is a runner, but I’ll save those for later, because this posting is already a bit long.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Have to say living in the Peckham end of Camberwell the lack of a tube station is not a problem. I walk to Peckham road, jump on the first bus that comes and go to either E&C, Oval or Vauxhall tubes (E&C easily no1 preference) and get the tube from there - I’m can be at Oxford Circus in just over 30 mins door to door which is about the same time that it takes me to cycle.
So tflinsider I’m not impressed by your tube plans - leave the Bakerloo going to E&C!
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
What about bring back the canals?
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I just worked out that 438,000 public buses pass Camberwell Green every year, that equates to more than one a minute. If that was even HALVED to one every two minutes because there was a tube i think i could live with this..
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Totally off topic, but can anyone recommend a local tradesman to fit and connect a new TV Aerial? Are the TV shop on Church Street worth trying?
Also, out of the two, I prefer busses to tubes, but my bit of Camberwell needs something to take the strain off the 343, be it another bus route, a tram or simply more 343s! But then, I cycle most places anyway. If I need to get the tube to work, I usually walk up to Elephant. It really isn’t that far. Has anyone else wondered why the bus stops along Camberwell Road and Walworth Road are so close together?
On another topic, JJ Caterers, the new Indian cafe on Southampton Way is worth a look. Really quite good food and incredibly cheap. Those in the area should try it out.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:03 am
Matt
S+S electronics fitted my aerial. It’s the shop on the main road with the old TVs in it (think that’s the one you refert to). Makes you wonder how they stay in business. The guy, called Paul, I think, is a good egg. I’d recommend them.
The aerial blew down in v strong winds shortly after he put it up but he returned and redid it for free. I was expecting a battle over the charges since the winds were exceptionally strong and it was not unreasonable to expect an aerial to come down in them, but it was a free repair.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Alan @86
Usually on the day of the BA private view which is Monday 16 June this year
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm
We have a sister coming to stay, so we will get a takeaway from JJ Caterers of Southampton Way, on the corner of Rainbow Street. Their Indian food, like the predominantly Indian dentists at Camberwell Green, are one of the reasons to be cheerful about Camberwell.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
thanks to Mark, have now tracked down the new chair of SE5 Forum, and sadly he is away for 6 weeks on a course in the US. Maybe Camberwell is being twinned with somewhere lovely in the States.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I think that anything which would reduce the unbearable amount of traffic going through Camberwell Green would be a very good thing indeed…
It’s pure stress that junction - there is no redeeming feature left to enjoy about it whatsoever…
So a tube link would be useful - let’s hope the Denmark Hill East London Line/Overground extension is brought forward pretty sharpish…
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:31 pm
The opening ceremony the other day for the Camberwell Grove railway bridge checkpoint was a marvellous occasion. The Camberwell Town Brass Band played a medley of tunes including Mendelsohn’s “Camberwell Green” performed in a thumping and brassy sort of way. Hundreds of schoolchildren waved Union Jacks. Amongst them was Mark Dodds, waving a home-made flag and wearing his strange, weather-beaten old suit. “I used to be Mayor of Camberwell!” he proclaimed as Peaches Geldof was about to cut the silk tape. He had spent all day in the pub as usual. “No, Dodds!” said the lollipop lady, “That’s Mayor of CASTERBRIDGE you should be in, Studio 7, down the road!” He shambled off, bandy-legged, clutching his top hat to his bonce, cursing his embarrassing error.
The first vehicle to pass through the checkpoint was a 1903 Austin Loughborough, belching smoke, with JohnnyM and Norman Maine aboard dressed as old-fashioned Edwardian Camberwell swells! They were continually overtaken by gondolas punting commuters up to town on the lost rivers and canals of London, but still, it was Progress.
Then World War I broke out, but we’d ‘ad such a lovely day, we didn’t mind!
June 4th, 2008 at 12:15 am
101
June 4th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Yes, then the R101 airship passed overhead on the way to France. Eusebiovic waved his red flag at it as he preceded the first car to pass through the checkpoint. Alan Dale was carried through on a pallet by a troupe of exotic dancing girls representing Empire. Peter and his wife rode through on a tandem tricycle.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:46 am
@100 - Frank = Farfrae? There may well be a brass arrangement eyup north east of this delicate offering by Felix to Fanny.
Later that day came an early Camberwell penny farthing casualty as the first joys of motoring were obliviously indulged in by one motorist as he perused a newspaper story of Austro-Hungarian intransigence whilst chugging along. Parp-parp! Watch where yer going! the driver screamed at the now-dismembered urban cyclist pioneer, whose family then went off to work in the poorhouse in the path of the exhaust fumes of the old Marmite Factory.
This turned their skins strange colours permanently, leading to much abuse of these apparent immigrants “stealing our jobs”. Historians now accept this early acclimatisation to “new communities” did much to encourage the cosmopolitan Camberwell that we know today.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
D.H. Lawrence passed through Camberwell yesterday, I was relieved to see, in the run-up to Camberwell Arts Week, loco.
There is a product design student at Camberwell who is making various art bicycles including an upside down bike and a tricycle with a steel beer keg as the front wheel which writes as it rolls. His work is worth looking out for at the degree show.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
The Old Dispensary property is going to be a bar! It’s retaining its name. I shall sample its wares on opening night and return from the frontline with a full report!
June 4th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Naughty Dagmar! It hasn’t been Camberwell Arts Week for a couple of years now. It’s Camberwell Arts Festival. I should know, I’m the Chairman of the Board!And there’s lots on from 14th to 22nd June, so get your raincoats on and come see. Full programme available ubiquitously.
June 4th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Quick glimpse of the Arts Festival brochure today Drew; Looks really good. Well done you guys!
June 4th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
And on to more important things - I see that the Old Dispensary has received a new coat of white paint and had new signage painted on - it is now to be known as… the Old Dispensary.
I see also that the Indian restaurant opposite Safa (formerly called Bolu or something) that has been shut for 2+ years has also received new signs and is now known as the Spice of Life. No indication when either of these establishments will open.
June 5th, 2008 at 8:53 am
What about Angels and Roma travellers?
June 5th, 2008 at 10:18 am
The Indian restaurant opposite Safa was once called Zara’s Kitchen, and the food there was delicious. Zara was a real person, and would emerge smiling from her kitchen sometimes. Then it changed hands, was painted blue, renamed British Raj, and very quickly went downhill.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Ah yes that was it - I realise Bolu is the kebab shop thats still going strong nearby.
I have happy memories of Zaras kitchen - if I remember correctly it was byo so it used to be common to see people coming laden down with cans of beer obtained in special six cans for £5 deals from one of the handy off licences Camberwell is blessed with.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Alan. We had family come recently who stayed at Church Street Hotel to rave reviews. We went over for breakfast and I’m very impressed, not least because they do a very good business all week long. The only slight downside, at least for our family, was late night/early morning street fighting in the area.
Anyway, the restaurant is still in the works, but not urgent. I fished to find out if it was money but turns out they simply are very busy with their two hotels and other pursuits (one brother is a busy actor as many know). They also aren’t convinced the market can support it just yet. Camberwell has a maximum number of such restaurants/bars it can sustain.
June 5th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Thanks for the update.
I think that given the media attention the hotel attracted they could create sufficient demand and it could even have a knock-on gentrification impact. But who knows? I guess they will open when MAry Datchelor is occupied..
Do they serve breakfast to the public or just to guests and their guests? I would like to try it..
I am also contemplating a stay there but that seems a little extravagant in these troubled times…
June 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
They aren’t open to general public for breakfast, which is really on fresh fruit, pastries, croissants, cereal, youghurt etc. Nothing hot/cooked. But the dining room is lovely.
If you have anyone staying there you can go visit and eat/have an evening drink at the bar. I’d highly recommend it. I believe small groups may be able to hire the area for meetings. Worth just stopping in and asking to see it if nothing else.
They’ve had some challenges with folks coming in off the street including a knife battle that spilled into reception. But they seem to take it in stride and as I say, they do a booming business, which was both surprising and heartening.
June 5th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Great to hear, Newroad. Ta for the update.
June 5th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Ah! Zara’s Kitchen - The best vegetarian curry I’ve ever tasted…rumour has it that the lovely Ms Zara de-camped to the outer reaches of Croydon - Although I’ve never had the chance to fully investigate…The inner reaches of Croydon are strenuous enough as it is
June 7th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Vegetable curry: try Kastoori in Tooting. NOt been for a long time because of life getting in the way but if it’s anywhere near as good as it was, it is some of the best food I’ve ever tasted anywhere.
And 100% vegetarian.
June 7th, 2008 at 11:34 am
I’ll head off to La Pampa in Battersea or Santa Maria De Buen Fe in Broadway Market for my Argentinian Steak and Fried Egg on the first weekend after pay day…That’s always good too - and the hot pancakes with buttermilk ice-cream for desert - mmmmmmmmm
We all need a nice healthy balance in this life…And I do feel as alpha as Lee Van Cleef after a good steak meal
June 7th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Has anyone been to Punjab Kebab? Their battered langoustines seem interesting. But they’re not. They’re just battered saltwater crayfish with nothing to say, languishing in the window, hung upside down, totally ignored by passing trade. My inner coriander tells me new thread soon or blog will eat itself.
Road rage at the Camberwell Grove Railtrack Dead Bridge Memorial Chicane today - you get about 3 seconds to turn right from McNeill onto Grove. Woman in blue BMW who overtook everyone on the wrong side of the bollard, all power to your crazy elbow, hon!
June 8th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Ah dags a new post must come soon! Rumour has it Pete’s is bored. He’s tried a million blogs casting himself as the true voice of intellect in a mad world but no one ever bites. This is is only claim to fame. Could be he’s on another high carbon footprint, expensive holiday and will soon be back to tell us why he can’t afford to buy a house before jetting off again!! Try http://www.petergasston.co.uk if you need a fix.
You all have plenty to talk about. The left here must be creaming over your man Mugabe giving the West a what for!
June 8th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Did Peter steal a girlfriend from you in the past, Johnny? Sack you from a Saturday job? There must be something personal going on. Of course, you could just be naturally petty and unpleasant.
Your jibes are so tired they don’t really deserve a response, but what the heck, especially as it’s a quiet day at work:
- It’s easy to style yourself as ultra-cynical and without principles, and then spend your time shouting ‘hypocrite!’ at anyone who tries to live to any sort of ideals, however imperfectly. Luckily, most people grow out of this one by their teens.
- You might want to read a few newspapers if you’re going to try and wind up the lefties. Zimbabwe’s a bit of an odd target - as far as I know not even the Socialist Workers back him anymore. Hugo Chavez is usually a better choice these days.
June 8th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
I’ve only just realised that it’s been 3 weeks since I posted. New one coming soon.
What I find funny about JohnnyM’s latest tirade against me is that it’s the textbook example of transference; having so long cast himself in the role of the voice of sanity in an insane world, he now puts that description onto me. It would be funny, if it weren’t so boring.
I did, however, enjoy the ‘outing’ of my other blog - which I have tried to hide for so long by using my name as the domain.
June 8th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
hi Peter
I was just about to send you details of Camberwell arts festival so you could make that your next topic.
I’ll do it very soon i hope.
Now you have an excuse for a short breather
Drew
June 8th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
@ Comment 21 - Pete W - Absolutely cracking put down, matey. Had me in stitches.
Johnny M - have really missed you. In particular, have rally pissed your tribble spilling.
June 8th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Johnny M @ 120
Displays jaw dropping,toe-curling ignorance by failing to realize that if Mugabe is still in charge of Zimbabwe it is because the collective bourgeoise supremacy are more happy to have him there - after all he was benefiting them (and himself) for years after independence - and he is still allowed a Swiss bank account
The left doesn’t come into it!
I won’t be holding my breath for a JohnnyM quantum leap any time soon…