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Welcome to the Camberwell Online blog, a place for free and spirited exchange on anything with even a tangential connection to the South-East London district.
North is pretty, Green is vile
Published by Peter | Filed under Events, Places, Shopping
I’ve changed my route to work in the morning, now cutting across Burgess Park and down Portland Street. I’d never realised how nice it is down there; behind the Aylesbury Estate there is a mass of social housing built, if I’m not mistaken, at the beginning of last century, and all beautifully cared for. Also lots of little parks and gardens. It’s a really pleasant street to cycle down, much better than the Walworth Road route I’m used to.
In stark contrast, however, is the bottom of Denmark Hill and around the Green. On the bus back from Brixton last weekend* I noticed that the whole area’s getting scruffier; a few more of those open-fronted yam shops and a few more stalls selling cheap tat starting to spring up, plus the ugly metal grill on the front of the former Kennedy’s and the empty units scattered about. Really, it’s dying on its arse. It’s quite sad to see. Every month sees a decline in variety and (perhaps) quality; anyone who thinks high street chains are going to open here is likely to be disappointed. It’s becoming fragmented. I’m sure this is a subject that deserves more analysis, so please feel free.
But all is not lost! Away from the centre we still have lots of social diversity, and pretty soon we have Camberwell Arts Festival 2008. You should have received some lovely leaflets and guides through your door recently which explain all the events, but if not you can visit the Camberwell Arts website and decide for yourself what you’d like to attend. It all kicks off on the 14th June, which is next Saturday, and goes on until the following Sunday. I will most likely not be attending anything which could loosely be described as performance art, as it makes me grind my teeth.
On an admin note: first, I’ve just updated the software that powers the site, so if anything behaves weirdly please let me know. Second, I haven’t had the time to keep the site updated as frequently as I’d like, owing to work and some potentially interesting developments therein. If anyone would like to help me out for a little while (or even permanently) by writing here, you’d be very welcome. No salary is involved, but you will have the opportunity to take a load of personal abuse from tossers who think they know all about you, despite having never met you. Sound attractive?
* I went to the Ritzy to watch Indiana Jones; it was… um…
June 9th, 2008 at 10:03 am
I never have understood why cyclists use Walworth High Street and the roundabouts at Elephant. The well marked cycle path is far better. Though someone did say a lot of the shall we say avid cyclist take the harder route just to complain about lack of respect, which is the reason I even hate to admit I cycle.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Its horses for courses - some people want to use the most direct route to cycle to places whereas others prefer to take a more leisurely route, neither is better. The council must recognise this and ensure that when developing new cycle routes it does not neglect to implement improvements to the general roads to make them more cycle friendly - in many cases local authorities (although on the whole not in London) think they have provided for cyclists by merely providing a cycle path when to make a place truly cycle friendly they must offer cycle tracks and improvements to public roads.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
newroad - I do not recognise the argument that there are “no-go” areas for cyclists on the roads (except where they are actually illegal, such as on motorways). I actually use the quieter route usually, but if in a hurry I would take the roundabout directly, and ride centre-lane, demanding 1 metre’s breadth either side from motoring overtakers. Less is not just assault, but often attempted murder under the protective veil of effete road traffic laws.
Certainly some cyclists can be mildly irritating and do the rest of us disservice. But I would rather dress up as a phallus on a sirrus and do wheelies along Walworth than be seen dead driving less than 2 miles to the local supermarket, or be caught in a car in a cyclist box at a red.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
I don’t drive. I don’t have a car. But why can’t this debate ever be reasonable?
The route is neither leisurely nor indirect. It’s easier, quicker and safer. For everyone. Cars can’t go everywhere cycles go and thus it’s fine that sometimes, cycles can’t go where cars do. It’s not combative, it’s common sense.
If we always start with cars=evil and bicycles=good, then we get nowhere.
Peter I believe the social housing was built by the church, if I’m not mistaken. The one just before East Street in the square between Portland and WW High St when cycling north.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
newroad, I recognise the danger of polarisation in this debate; credit to you for trying to walk the tightrope.
However, I do not agree with the underlying premise that some motorists - not all - will extract from your argument; that cyclists on busy urban roads deserve “everything they get”. There is an argument that the parked cars along both sides of the shortcut roads create an even greater hazard for cyclists than fast-moving traffic along Walworth, particularly when a car moving from the opposite direction is thrown into the mix. Most drivers I know don’t check their wings before flinging open the driver door to make a pedestrian exit into the public highway.
If the Council puts up a sign saying no cyclists, I will comply with the law, as usual. Lobby for it - I will not oppose you.
Until that time I have equal right to share the road, and any motorist “punishing me” for my presence on a busy road by overtaking dangerously is committing the crime of assault at the least. It’s purely about the mechanics of evidence, and our cultural acceptance of serious RTAs being a “part of life”.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I went to see Fung Foo Panda at the weekend.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
A langoustine cyclist dismounts and walks into a Camberwell pub. “Sorry,” says the barmaid, “we don’t serve sticklebacks.” “Cycle paths,” says the langoustine. “I beg your pardon!” says the barmaid, “Any more of yore cheek an’ I’ll ‘ave you served up with fritters!”
June 9th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I will find rare agreement with Regenguru on the point of free/subsidised parking, which is seen as a right. As part of a wider wish for council housing to be means tested on a regular basis (and not passed on for generations), I would propose Council Esates not provide free car parking. And if someone has a car, it would be counted as an asset to their income. For special needs and those who use their cars for work, there could be exceptions.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
A bus goes into a pub. “Do you have oysters?,” he asks. “I told your langoustine mate,” snaps the barmaid, “we don’t serve bivalves.” “Khyber Pass?” says the bus. “Crustaceans!” groans the lass, “End of the bar, turn right.”
June 10th, 2008 at 9:48 am
It is a rare thrill to negotiate the double roundabout at elephant at full tilt. The back route is more pleasant though, but has its own dangers with the overweight dogs of Burgess and the deranged costermongers of East Street Market. Have you Peter found the magic route which allows you to cross Old Kent, avoid the Elephant, and appear unflustered on Blackfriars Road?
June 10th, 2008 at 10:59 am
so Indiana Jones no good then; anyone seen Chet Baker biog Lets Get Lost? I saw it years ago, but was in a ’spiritually distracted’ phase so recall very little, except how beautiful Chet was before the smack.
Peter, I’m pretty happy to do some blogging for you. I can do opinions when pushed, and suspect people often say disparaging things about me anyway…
Let me know
June 10th, 2008 at 11:12 am
“deranged costermongers” – good one. Part of the streetscape though, I like that they’re there running the market.
Elephant roundabout at full tilt is a thrill too far for me.
The back way is easier… Across the New Kent Road, through Trinity Square, Great Suffolk Street… and onward
I often see people I know from Camberwell, Peckham, or East Dulwich, riding this way. It’s fun to ride with friends; it reigns in the racing instinct.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:21 am
What’d be cool is if you could find some local teenagers or students studying English or media, or whatever, to write here.
Kids are probably studying blogging by now.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
We just got the Camberwell Arts Festival fliers through the door. Looks great.
“Under Growth” by Rachel Gomme will be my top pick. Walking is art, right?
June 11th, 2008 at 8:20 am
The Elephant roundabout is a source of much unresolved debate for me and Mrs Dotcom … I enjoy navigating it on my bike, dressed in lycra or jeans, she flatly refuses to set wheel in it …
As for the back streets/main road debate, I actually feel less nervous on Walworth road than the back streets - I feel car drivers are more cautious on main roads and less likely to come charging out of a side street without stopping to see if a bicycle is coming …
June 11th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I was hit by a car on the Elephant this morning; wrote off my bike! A thrill, but not a cheap one. Is this blog possessed?
June 11th, 2008 at 10:21 am
@14 - thanks for your positives, D-MAN. CA’s director, Kelly, and all the artists have put a really superb programme together; Peter, check out some of the fantastic music that’s on, especially Perunika at the Crypt on Saturday 21st, and the lunchtime classical concerts at the Institute of Psychiatry.
BTW it’s always important to remember that events like this are closely evaluated by funders; bums on seats really do count. So if someone asks you to fill in a response card, plese do.
Enjoy the Festival, and be happy.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Florian, I hope I’m right in assuming that if you can write a post you escaped relatively unscathed, but wish you a peaceful day nonetheless.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:48 am
florian - hope you’re OK, and that you got the driver’s details. You may not realise the full mental and physical impact of the accident until some time afterwards, so call a solicitor straightaway because his insurance needs to cough up.
He won’t change his style of driving if he doesn’t at least lose his no claims, so an offer to replace the bike doesn’t cut it. Go through the channels please - for the sake of us all.
June 11th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Peter - to come back to your point in para 2…
It’s about rent.
That simple.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Drew can you explain further?
It seems to me if the rents are high, how can these ‘tat’ shops afford them unless they are doing a brisk business? And if they are, and assumedly doing better than our longed for botique deli, that means a lot of people (customers) want them. So I’m confused. Do we want the Council to enforce rent control to bring about our middle class aspirations?
June 11th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
St George have finally published some information on their topical Mary Datchelor development - and they promise rows of “authentic” Georgian townhouses - hmmmm, am I the only cinic? The architect apparently dusted off his his architectural history books, noting that “this sort of architecture has got to be good or it looks terrible”. Now I have never seen believable mock Georgian, but I dearly hope he has.
Full scoop on pg 44 - 47 of attached link.
http://www.stgeorgeplc.com/index.cfm?articleid=15
June 11th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I’m not a fan particularly of St George but yours is a cheap shot post.
They’ve hardly ‘finally’ published details. They published them for five years. Two (three?) of the plans were soundly rejected. The final approved plans were only public display and open for numerous consultations.
And they stood at Butterfly Walk for weeks with detailed plans, architects to answer questions and samples of the materials they will use.
So based on all those detailed plans and such, I would ask how someone can now suggest it’s been held in private and will be rubbish: did you speak up during the appropriate time? Do you reject the hard work of the Camberwell Society working group and Council planners who are now pleased with the plans? I think it’s time to accept we did a good job of ensuring it will be high quality and look forward to its benefits.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
easy tiger - I was merely pointing out that I am yet to see a successful rendering of a new, old building. It was not an attempt at slandering the architect or the council or indeed anyone else in the wider approval network for new developments.
clearly this is a topic close to your heart, so I apologise if you have misconstrued my comments.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Sorry. Not particularly dear but it’s dragged on for five years and we should move on. It has to be the longest consultation I’ve ever witnessed.
There was the ‘mock Georgian’ v ‘Georgian’ debate you would’ve enjoyed. Apparently if it is done to high standard, it is Georgian. Even if done in 2008. Dunno.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Woa Florian - hope you,re ok.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I’m fine thanks. Many admiring glances at the bike as it went to the head of the triage queue at the repair shop today. Every cyclist must have his or her war stories, and I now have a corker to run alongside the one about the deranged costermonger.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I’ve noticed a lot of the places around the green (eg Kennedy’s, the shop next to it) have been sold.
Any thoughts on who’ll move in?
June 12th, 2008 at 11:14 am
There is alot of good mock-geogain around but because its good you cant tell. The city of Bath is full of it and it is all the better for it.. but yes there is also alot more bad. The plans look good although i cant help but wish they had listened to the Camberwell working party a little more and not had such a long parade of identical houses facing camberwell grove.- its now down to the materials they use.. pointing, windows, slates, bricks etc..
June 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Sorry to hear Florian and glad you are okay. Seriously, check out the alternate routes to avoid the roundabout. It was a bit confusing for me at first but then when I sussed it, I realised how much easier (and safer) it is.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Mock anything, especially Georgian, can end up a cheap pastiche, but with quality materials and the right scale/proportions, the buildings will be better than many of the alternatives. Infact, I wish other areas of Camberwell were treated with the same sensitivity as Camberwell Grove. New builds near me have dominated their area. And they look sufficiently cheap to convince me they are the slums of the future.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
The model of St George’s Camberwell Grove development in their Visitor Centre is exquisite. The cars and figures are so true. Just our luck to have this improvement built at the start of the downturn. Several large military choppers flew down the Thames at about 6pm. I thought there’d been a coup and that David Davis had taken over with the support of the armed forces and had replaced Elizabeth on the throne with Lady Thatcher.
What a liberty, I thought, 10,000 langoustines marching on Downing Street, 20,000 cyclists passing Buckingham Palace in formation, forty fahsund fevvers on a frush… is anyone else finding reality hard at the moment?
June 13th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Reality?
Oil shortages? Petrol prices? Oil company profits? Banks not lending? Footballers’ pay? Biofuel production creating staple food famine? Food prices in the third world? Arctic ice 1.5 metres thick in winter? Nuclear power stations commissioning? Pub Companies’ share prices against their exposure to debt? Kelvin McKenzie standing as MP?
What is reality? Reality is as tough as biltong in a dry mouth.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Yes. Yes! Thank goodness for the Guardian guide to pond life yesterday. We should be grateful to that head girl of our conscience, that pillar of our consciousness, for furnishing us with such a, such a… “Foldie” is their description of what it is. Talk about the nanny state we’re in! “Here is your guide to pond life, here is your foldie.”
June 13th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Green is vile is balls.
The Green is getting nicer all the time. Our kids use the playground there now. It’s hugely improved. It’s a well landscaped useable public space.
As for the wider area around the green then of course a shop that closes down is going to get boarded up. So what? What ever opens may not have all of the meaningless historical sentiment that we seemed to have attached to our now defunct previously unwanted sausage shops but at least it will be able to trade. If not then then the one after… eventually we will have progress. And I believe that busy ‘yam shops’ are progress compared to an empty sausage shop.
There’s certainly nothing vile about yam shops. That’s ethnocentric nonsense.
Have you ever bought and cooked a yam? How many yam shops before you try it? How many roads must a man walk down before you can boil him a yam?
June 13th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Ya, man.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
I was brought up on yams.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Was invited, and went, to the opening celebration of Camberwell Arts Week last night at House Gallery. Thanks to Kelly, Drew, Melanie and everyone involved for a really good evening. I was lucky enough to be able to come with my ‘partner’ (she is my girlfriend really) because our kids are away for a week with the grandparents. Had a great time.
Stopped off at the New Dispensary on the way home. Good in parts but begs the question: WHY?
Has anyone else noticed a springing up of ‘churches’ in warehouses in the area recently? There’s two near me; Destiny International Christian Assembly at 95 Camberwell Station Road and another that doesn’t advertise its existence at 108 Warner Road. They don’t have planning permission. This really annoys me.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:08 am
The New Dispensary
June 14th, 2008 at 11:04 am
cycle route: if you’re heading more westwardly, avoid the horror of the E&C roundabout system: turn left at top of Walworth Rd [just before Dragon Castle] into Hampton St, bear right, cross Newington Butts when the green bike is showing, past the new park behind E&C leisure centre, on to Brook Drive, then across the Imperial War Museum garden, King Edward Walk beside Morley College, then on to Westminster Bridge Rd just before Lambeth North tube. the humps on Portland St give me the hump
June 14th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Beautiful day. Just spent half an hour in Brunswick Gardens waiting for the kids. Now we are in Lucas Gardens enjoying the sunshine. Nice.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Seize the day, indeed, dman!
One of the emerging highlights of Camberwell Arts Week, with its exponentially ever more spontaneous and surprising practice, is the Front Window multisite domestic location personal narrative space show, where people put up their art in their front windows.
Not everyone gets to be invited to the exclusive House Gallery opening soiree.
However, everyone can show their stuff in this exemplarily inclusive, typically Camberwell, up-for-it, c’mon if yer think yer art enough scheme.
Go to the website and join in now! You will be transported to the strartosphere of the Camberwell art scene in one uplifting, invigorating and liberating act of self-expression.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Dagmar, my apologies, if I’d thought about it for more than a microsecond I would have invited you and your fantastic poetic observations on Camberwell. If you are coming on the Pub Crawl tonight,, or anything else during the FESTIVAL week do please say hello.
Of course what we’d really like is to have someone like you on our Board of Directors… You fancy? Come talk to me.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I’m a cyclist. I cycle to work every day. I’m also a jogger and jog less frequently than I should. On Monday whilst jogging before work I got mown down by a cyclist who was cycling at full pelt down Camberwell Grove. I would say the blame was equal - I saw him before I stepped into the road and made the decision that I would be more than halfway across the road before he got close. I did probably underestimate how fast he was going but I was already half way across the road when he struck (I landed on the white centre lines) and there was plenty of room to go around me and nothing obscuring his vision. The road was empty save for one car coming up the hill. I can’t say for sure but I assume he was not concentrating at all, I presume enjoying going down the hill and listening to his headphones. I hit my head quite hard on the road and have a few interesting bruises. I’m okay though although was a little concussed and shaken up at the time. He stopped to make sure I was okay, and I think was a bit traumatised by the experience. The feeling of having a bike plough into you at full pelt is not one I would recommend and I wasn’t feeling like stopping to have a chat about it.
I want to say though that I don’t hold it against the cyclist , and hope he’s okay because he came off too. I love cycling down that hill too and pedestrians can be bloody annoying and do stupid things. I hope he thinks twice now about cycling with his headphones in and pays more attention to what is going on in the road in front of him.
Be careful everyone!
June 14th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Drew, my good man, I was merely using the idea of the necessity of the existence of bourgeois structures and patronage for pre-revolutionary culture, to leverage the inspired anarcho-individualistic FRONT WINDOW, the part of Arts Week where anyone can show whatever they want to show in their front windows. Anyone can join in by going to the festival website.
By the end of the festival, almost every window in Camberwell will be scintillating with visual expression and the town will be crawling with media - Lord Bragg here, Dame Bakewell there, that effete bloke from Imagine here & there - the dealers will be knocking on doors and questioning small children and Camberwell will buck the national trend downwards for morale, house prices and creative banality.
To put it another way and push the blue sky further, when Denmark does not qualify for Euro 2008, that is art. When England does not qualify, that is just a sort of David Davis-style Carry On Westminster cock-up.
How nice Euro 2008 is without England!
June 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Green is v-i-l-e. Does Dodds always take cheap shots at any other business giving it a go in our third world town? If you’ve got all the answers, why don’t you start a group and change things? Should take you little time since you got it down man. Loved Pete’s jab at Africans. Not pc mate!
June 14th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Sittin watchin the iron lady bio on bbc 2. What a lady. Turned this country round. Dodds must be from up north. It’s all big business’fault and gov’t ought to take care of our every need. spare no expense! Credit crunch? Blame banks. Not the idiots who kept on borrowing. Footballers salaries? Who you think pays for all those tickets and jersies and tickets abroad? Notice all council flats have sky dishes?
June 15th, 2008 at 9:55 am
You’re sitting in on a Saturday night watching a documentary about Margaret THATCHER?
June 15th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
JohnnyM you’re totally full of it yourself. Come on clever pants tell us who you are. Tiny Tosser.
June 15th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
My apologies, my last post wasn’t what I meant to say. This is closer to it.
JohnnyM. You’ve got it completely wrong, you’re always projecting your own sadly diminished, twisted understanding of what’s going on around you and mistaking it for other people’s views and motives. YOU are the only person on this blog who takes cheap shots at others while hiding behind a convenient veil of anonymity. Perhaps that gives you a thrill. Others here have more courage, eloquence and generosity than you and without doubt contribute far more to the local community in their daily lives.
I don’t make cheap shots JohhnyM, I make observations which I don’t have a problem backing up if asked to. You, on the other hand, cannot help spraying flippant bile and nonsense out your rear end proving you are nothing but a tiny minded little Tosser. You must get though a lot of toilet paper.
That feels a bit better.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Dulwich Ukulele Club were great last night at the Castle. They are a sort of miniature Alabama 3. They are incredibly well drilled, very tight and together for an 11-piece. They ought to include some more mellow numbers - it’s not all about thrash and anger, especially if you are (well) over the age of 30 and imbued with East Dulwich well meaning. Perhaps they should do some Beach Boys numbers, for instance. They’d have the audience at their feet for Kokomo. The trains to Newquay will soon be packed with ukulele surf types, so this would be a very current tack to take. They finished on “Can’t Go Back to Camberwell”. We ought to have our version of their band.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:35 am
On Indiana Jones. The bit at the end is a little pedestrian isn’t it? Couldn’t George Lucas have come up with something less, err, believable? Played out by a Ukulele band maybe.
Camberwell College Breakfast this morning.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Fell asleep watching the Maggie thing on Saturday. Seemed like just another excuse for the miners strike and the tank footage.
She definitely did turn the country around and we are now in a stronger econonmic position as a result. The question is whether it needed to be quite so painful and with such drastic social implications.
Read Rumours of a Hurricane by Tim Lott. It won’t change your mind but might give you an insight into the lives some of Thatcher’s victims.
Where’s the tolerance gone Mark? JohnnyM makes some interesting points from his ‘vile’ Camberwell debt trap. He’s going to need his £8.5k per month to buy his way out of this one. Have a heart.
On the yam front I have to confess that I’ve only had it from 4T4 Lip Smacking African Cuisine and never prepared it myself..
June 16th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Dagmar - I went to “It’s your Round” the art show upstairs at the Bear, where I laughed more than I have in a while, and then on to the second sitting of Yara El Sherbini’s hilarious orientalist pub quiz at the Sun and Doves, which over-ran a bit so by the time I got to the Castle, the Ukes were leaving. But I did see them last week at Brockwell House and jolly good they were too. Then on to Lottie Leedham’s installation at the Dark Horse, which despite being the Festivals Chair I wasn’t allowed in to see; but I am given to understand that secrecy and brotherhood was the whole point. I was too tired to make it to Duckie, but have to say the opening night of the festival was packed out, buzzy, and artistically innovative.
Suits me, Sir!
June 16th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Good stuff Dagmar. Afraid I had to go for dinner to friends’ for various reasons and couldn’t make the first night of the festival.
Alan. JohnnyM can squat in his virulent mind set forever. My tolerance is evaporating as I come out of the shell I was in as a result of over a decade of commercial abuse at the hands of a big company and the toll that took on me.
I’m going to have a think about Maggie and report back rather than give a knee jerk reaction.
June 16th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Margaret Thatcher “There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.”
I watched the the programme on BBC4 last week it did try and show her as a driven woman who had some warmth. And oddly as feminist paving the way for other sisters
Phooey me and my sisters have already planned to have a big party when that old witch finally dies.
June 16th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
History my be kinder to Maggie but still have a hard time being equally kind. It was a difficult time to live through.
Mark, I like the S&D’s. And we’ve all lived through your struggles and always wished you well. But I must admit you are very quick to judge (sometimes harshly) other similar business ventures in the area. Perhaps it’s competition and fair. Let’s give The Dispensery a chance before we write it off. I suspect they may struggle too, if I’m honest.
June 16th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Alan, art college nite is tonite. The girls look great, the youths look sylphy, there’s something there for everybody, artistically speaking. The Cave will be the place to be!
June 16th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Thanks Newroad. It must be my writing style that makes people think I’m quick to judge new competition but, actually, I want good stuff to happen in Camberwell. After my first visit to The Bear I recommended going there and said the food is easily the best in Camberwell. On Caravaggio I was disappointed because it promises so much more than it delivers, Amarylis, unfortunately, is disastrously weak, The New Dispensary I enjoyed and thought was pretty good - This is what I put on flickr next to the link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/2576650090/) I used above:
secretlondon123 Pro User says:
“This is back as a pub again?
Is it affordable this time?”
a shadow of my future self (me) Pro User says:
“Can’t remember how much it was. I didn’t pay for the drinks. Not remarkably expensive I think.
I prefer it to the old Old Dispensary - the layout is much more comfortable and space is much better used. What they’ve done with the front door has greatly improved access, quite simple but clever really. It feels like a bar in Ireland. Problem is, it’s not in Ireland.”
NOW THAT SEEMS PRETTY POSITIVE. I had a drink, I enjoyed it, I said so. I hope they do really well, I really do - it’s certainly one of the most competent openings in a long time locally and the people behind it clearly know what they’re doing. I just wonder seriously whether there is demand for this kind of bar here. If I had the opportunity of taking on this site (and I would be very reluctant to take it on because of where it is) I would have done it as a speakeasy and concentrated on spirits, cocktails and bottled beers. What the new owners have done is almost along those lines but with a reasonably authentic Irish slant which, because of O’Neill’s Filthy McNasty’s and the other chains has become way overplayed. Individuals do it better than chains but whos’ to know this when they walk into the Old Dispensary now?
Camberwell needs a lot better at every level of catering. This would be good for my business. And I concede that S&D needs to be better too. Now that I have a certain amount of mental and literal freedom as a result of my Appeal Court win, I will be concentrating on helping improve standards all round.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
@ Comment 56 - Gnomee
If I bring a coffin to dance on, can I come to your party too? Please?
June 16th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Gnomee thanks for being direct about your take on Thatcher. After thought, and reflection, I have nothing good to say about the woman or her legacy. Much needed to change in the UK but it didn’t have to change in the way this dogmatic tunnel visioned monetarist chose to do it. In my view EVERYTHING that is ailing in the uk bears the echoes of that time and the particular way in which she chose to dismantle a state. And just look at Regan’s and her legacy over Russia. They gloated over the fall of communism, stood back to watch the USSR’s death throes with glee. They should have got in quick and helped put a competent capitalist democracy in place.
I’d pay for the Ukulele Band to play at the dance.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Them Dulwich Ukulele Club were good. They remind me in many ways of the Balham Alligators, a superb Cajun band from Balham. Their singer was so swayed by the music he went a bit nutty. I was in Balham today, quite a pleasant place with a large Co-op funeral parlour that is open for business 24 hours a day - no hanging about. Hari Krishna have premises in Balham, too. There is also a Waitrose.
Camberwell Arts Festival Week gathers pace. My own turn in the graveyard this afternoon singing “Jesus blood never failed me yet” on stilts went unnoticed except by some crows, magpies and pigeons peering up my frayed denim miniskirt.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
I lived in Balham when the main supermarket was called Presco. Then it became Kwiksave and then Safeway. Now the supermarket on the same site is Waitrose.
Need more be said innit.
Dagmar the birds really appreciate your denim.
The Northerner.
June 17th, 2008 at 7:42 am
I have a balham
alligators album somewhere and saw them a few times. one of the top uk cajun combos for sure. Are they still going? I think thatcher’s hair was impressive. Liberating the falklands too. She was grim for the north though. Less so for the south (big bang and all that)?
June 17th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Dag - when you sing Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet, do you follow the part written for Tom Waits, or the part Bryars recorded the tramp singing? It’s artifice vs authenticity time!
June 17th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Mushtimushta course you can come, hey there will be lots of us. Though if there are more than 4 does that constitute an illegal rave?
I can forgive many people being misguided even Regenguru who automatically assumed that the car was at fault when Florian had an accident. As yet we do not know Florian did not say! Florian glad you are OK. Forgiveness could never go as far as Thatcher though!
and I lurve Waitrose but could we ever possible have Somerfield become one? I would be skint as I always spend far too much in the one in Balham on the rare occasion that I go there, thank god it is too far away.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I sing the Waits whilst me rear end plays the trombone. Art for art’s sake, I say. Last night the Hermits Cave was packed with talent and Grove Lane was blocked. Across the road I noticed that sign saying “Taste of London, Lesbian Cuisine”. There are paintings dotted everywhere round Camberwell - in the Hermits, some comedian has slashed the Phokela.
Tony Blair looked and talked like the younger Margaret Thatcher. Both have their merits but war is always hell. The Falklands was a nightmare, any war is. They wouldn’t let the wheelchair men sit at the back of the Falklands Westminster victory service - gave the wrong impression.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
My generation grew up on Thatcher and can never support conservatives.
The generation that’s just come up with Bliar at the controls can never support Labour.
I’d guess it just goes around in circles like that.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Fault is a social construct. But I was static at a junction and royally reared. So draw your own conclusions. Back on the road now. And did the Elephant this morning, with no flashbacks.
June 17th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I’m told that keen cyclist GW Bush always fits in a bike ride on every leg of foreign trips. I’d like to think that when he was in town this week he eschewed the delights of the grounds of Windsor Castle for a quick spin round the E&C roundabout and up the Walworth Road. Did anyone spot him?
June 17th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Funnily enough, I did watch W’s full press conferences here and in France and was somewhat impressed. Put aside his horrible delivery, I thought he held his own and actually made sense on some subjects. I was testing myself to see if I could take filters off and judge for myself. Odd.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
He came by S&D for a pint.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
That is, of course, a lie.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
“Pope Not To Visit Hackney”
June 18th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Miles Pope?
June 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Strong reactions to Thatcher season.
My view is that New Labour’s betrayal of the north east was far more serious than that of the Thatcher Government.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Miles End Road Pope. Labour could hardly have been called upon to deregulate unions and the post-war set-up. It is a real irony that the miners were doing such stupid un-needed work. Blokes died or were injured year after year in mines. It was a sort of chauvininism that kept it going. Aberfan, you name it, it were a bad do, coal.
Men being men is a bad do. It is iron-lady-onic that it took a woman to dismantle the old daftness. It was incredibly ironic that (a) the Falklands War saved her popularity bacon and (b) brought down a literally fascist regime.
However, Harold Wilson’s great achievement was to not to take Britain into Vietnam. Thatcher and Blair legitimised violence. War is just the pits.
Still.
Camberwell Arts Week brings its own anarchic psychic energy to our bosom.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Interesting point Dagmar. Perhaps Maggie did what needed to be done, but surely there was a softer way. It would be fantastic if George Bush will be proven to have done the same: democracy breaks out all of the Middle East, etc. etc. But I won’t hold my breath. Afghansitan could use a boost, far too many deaths at present. God bless ‘em.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
BTW, can I just say: Good; Serves you right.
June 19th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
People out of control of their lives.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Should I report that I had a long chat with Waitrose’s head of property today; interested in Camberwell?
Who knows?
June 20th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I think ‘no’ is a pretty sure bet.
June 20th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Three less mature trees on “Camberwell New Road.
There aren’t enough lifetimes in the household concerned to recoup this assasination of carbon sequestration, even through the most austerely green asceticism and street level campaigning to save the planet. But with two motor vehicles to the bad already, it’s not a good start.
June 20th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Strange - edit system isn’t working. The link is http://www.se5forum.org/forum/index.php/topic,821.msg3933.html#msg3933.
June 20th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I’m not a member so can’t reply on the se5 site. So car owners are now also tree killers? Terrorists?
At least now you can argue to lock ‘em all up for 42 days without too much effort.
June 20th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Isn’t Waitrose the very definition of a middle class area? There are *plenty* of people with money to spend around here, so maybe it’s not that far-fetched.
Not sure I’d use it much myself… I try to avoid the big supermarket chains on principle. Apparently Waitrose isn’t so bad as Tesco on ethics, so that’d be good too.
June 20th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Terrorists, New Road? - I don’t have any information on that but I’d be interested to hear your sources, and how this relates to Camberwell, as the loss of mature trees clearly does. Clearly some of my posts are hyperbolic, but I do feel there is an overlap between the mentality shared between certain motorists - not all - and tree killers, in terms of obliviousness to the environment.
Please join - it’s easy and takes less than a minute. You get the right to initiate threads, vote in polls and create polls to vote in. You just need an email address and a joke name, like you do here. Obviously, it doesn’t have to be the same name.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Er…deep and end come to mind.
Agree with Peter on the convictions. I hope life means life.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I had to cut down a tree in my garden. My next door neighbour reported some kind of subsidence and her insurance company instructed neighbours on both sides to chop down a total of 6 trees. I tried to fight it, even paying for an independent tree surgeon to report (findings: zero chance that my tree was contributing to the neighbours subsidence) but to no avail.
I think most tree chopping-downs are due to this kind of knee-jerk reaction to subsidence from insurance companies rather than clearence to make way for driveways. Could be wrong though: no data available on tree-deaths you see.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Richard Reynolds’ new book “On Guerilla Gardening” is just great. The blog is brilliant: http://www.guerillagardening.org. What do you think, Reg? Is not not excellently executed - the concept, the book, the website, the photographs of beautiful plants burgeoning in the concrete desert of the Elephant, the whole thing?
June 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Achtung, I cannot edit my “not not” typo above. Scheisse!
June 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I’d shop at Waitrose, I love it.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Waitrose ain’t gonna come to Camberwell. Dulwich, maybe. Waterloo/West E&C, maybe. Kennington, maybe. But not Camberwell.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Dagmar, I like it - people who think about the quality of public space. Wyndham and Comber need their attention. Who is this ethereal Ajax that surlily refuses us amendments?
More greenery on the flat rooves of garages is needed, and owners who have built without permission should be forced to coat their rootfops with soil half a foot deep, and maintain a wild garden there. Council tax concessions for all gardens are needed - people are paving over their collective garden hectares, as if they had no space inside for wellies.
Come the flash floods they’ll be wringing their hands, and any absorbent household items.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Oh, good, if you like it, Reg, then it must be relevant, intelligent and have some roots in reality. I thought well, it’s one of those kinda fluffy weird hug-me notions, but the book, the blog, the idea and the results are just stunning.
June 20th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Guerilla Gardening. Love it.
Reminds of the “I love Peckham” thing “creating reckless acts of wanton improvement.”
http://www.ilovepeckham.com/
June 20th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Waitrose in Camberwell? Don’t be daft.
Camberwell is going down, not up. It’s a Netto next for us.
Have to say that generic yam shop is more useful than the sports shop was, though I mourned the latter’s disappearance.
Let’s just hope that more yam shops don’t appear. Don’t want the place looking like Peckham.
June 20th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Thanks for the I Love Peckham link. May I just say that in the projects list the use of a toilet in relation to Peckham is particularly apt.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
peckham or cambwerwell, same thing really. brixton, new cross, kennington, walworth, nunhead… all the same vibe, right down to the yam shops and pound stores.
I thought the toilet was quite funny. If you got to go…
many times i’ve sat on that bench in warwick gardens though, so I can apopreciate that
June 20th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
I’d add Lewisham but not Blackheath, and subtract Kennington, which is more like Blackheath, but definitely a swath of similarity. I like it personally.
June 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
It will be a very sad day when the good folk at Cruson and Sophocles decide to call it a day…
Some of the other stores around Camberwell could certainly take a few tips regarding aesthetic and presentation from these old stagers…
June 20th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Camberwell is at its best early on a Sunday morning. You can see that it’s actually quite nice, with loads of variety to suit all our many groups of people. It’s at its worst when all those groups are out in force and it can become a very exhausting visit, which only escalates the rudeness factor. It’s just chaos and horrible.
As I’ve said before, I think working with what we’ve got and some simple solutions could make a huge difference, though it’s not all doom and gloom as it is right now. We certainly don’t hurt for choice or consumers.
June 20th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Bagel King is coming to Camberwell!
June 20th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Newroad, you’re right about Sunday morning. What could it be that makes it seem so quiet and peaceful then?
Here’s another instance of us agreeing - “we don’t hurt for consumers”. Serious buying power resides hereabouts. The main choice being made, however, is regular shopping trips to East Dulwich to spend money there, the local facilities being found wanting.
June 20th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Bad architecture and ill-conceived rudimentary town planning are the reasons why Camberwell is what it is
The fact that it’s best bits work at all are nothing to do with local authority
Butterfly Walk has been nothing but a huge negative for Camberwell ever since it was built - One of the hundreds of Thatcher-era white elephants that were built up and down the country by dodgy spiv entrepreneurs who blagged the money but had no concept of anything else
Also allowing apartments to be built in the middle of Wren Road facing the car park was a big mistake (no offence to any residents of those flats, it’s not your fault)
It is possible to get it right though as the early 80’s Selbourne Village development proves (My bet is it was conceived much earlier) - My only criticism being that Selbourne Road should have been kept as a residents only through road to Denmark Hill, that bit has always looked shit - Horrible little stumps of former streets are the tell tell sign of classic bad town planning
Butterfly Walk should of been an open plan plaza with retail units on the periphery and market stalls in the middle - think of all those lovely fruit and veg stalls that it would of provided
But the opportunity has passed and now…it will never happen
I also see that a complete vulgarian has decided to strip out the grade II listed contents of the old Kennedy’s sausage store and installed a lowest common denominator cheap red aluminium shutter on the front together with a cheap softwood door from Wickes (or somewhere) painted black.
The Kennedy’s in Herne Hill next to the Train Station is now a fishmonger and guess what? - The whole thing has been kept intact and looks absolutely fantastic and is a real asset to the community
I feel really negative
June 20th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Actually the architecure is far superior to surrounding areas, a true ‘village’. Most is just a bit rundown or covered up. Look at East Dulwich and Kennington. Both are quite simple by comparison. And both are on busy steets too. Yet they both have nicer shops and such. It’s down to the population and as I’ve said, we should embrace it and I prefer it. We cater for all sorts and do it pretty well. The only things I can’t get in Camberwell are clothes and furniture. Neither of which I would shop for in smaller shops anyway.
June 20th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Waitrose head of property is going to run a few things past his researchers who will come back to him within a fortnight with the demogs and then he’ll get back to me and we’ll discuss further.
I am not holding my breath. BUT, it’s not been turned down out of hand. And Waitrose has a new policy of expanding into less obvious areas. Face it, if one opened here, we’d have people coming from Dulwich and Brixton any way. So why not here?
Quite frankly, I think Waitrose is next to heaven. And John Lewis is on the other side.
June 20th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Newroad @ 105
I was not referring to the old architecture (Georgian,Victorian,Edwardian) - merely pointing out that the majority of it from the 60’s onwards in conjunction with bad town planning is very poor - Butterfly Walk being the classic example…
Waitrose isn’t that much more expensive for a basic shop than Somerfield…(ie:the difference is negligable)
Not a lot of people know that…but they should
June 20th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Mark, I would appreciate a Waitrose so that I can buy calves’ liver, food of the gods, that cannot be found within a 2 mile radius of the Green.
Also there is no fresh fish here (I don’t trust what is sold at the market on the Green, because something often stinks around that place). But fortunately we are an ethnic-minority-rich area high in low-income groups, which means that according to Government statistics we are likely to dine principally on burgers, ’shakes n’ frahd chick’n, so that’s alright then and let’s keep planning on that basis.
June 20th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Regeneguru - I’m probably going to regret engaging with you directly, but here goes-
Your “Thatcher Government” link article in posting 76 does not persuade me to blame those around me for voting for the band of small-minded tw*ts that comprised the Government from 1979 to 1997. Why? Firstly, because even in 1983, Labour’s worst showing during that period, Labour won 51.6% of the votes cast in Camberwell & Peckham (the other 48.4% were shared between the Tories (24.2%), the SDP(21.8%) and the NF (2.5%). The second reason is, even those that voted Tory did not all, by voting that way, sanction the continuation of 3 million unemployed and many of the other vicious policies that the Tories were responsible for. You implore voters not to be “tribal” (which is just a bit patronising) but simultaneously exhibit very tribal behaviour in your attitude towards motorists, to cite just one example (but there are many).
I, for one, will be dancing on the old cow’s grave when she eventually pops her clogs. And there are a few others out there who will be joining me. We are not a tribe, as such, but a loose association of bloggers with a common grudge. Get over it!
June 20th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Regeneru comments (108) that there is no fresh fish in Camberwell. That is not true: the Chinese supermarket on Denmark Hill opposite the Butterfly does a very good selection of very fresh fish.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
In fairness Julian, I said I didn’t trust that fish because of the stink (whenever I have approached the vicinity).
Mushtimushta, you raise too many points for me to deal with at once. Let’s debate this over at the Forum, which it is quick to join: http://www.se5forum.org.
I have friends who are motorists.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Fish which is truly fresh shouldn’t smell fishy - the stronger the smell the greater the level of decomposition…
Which is why I mentioned the fishmonger in the parade of shops next to Herne Hill Station that has taken over the old Kennedy’s shop that was there
If only they had done the same with the Camberwell one - but we are at the mercy of people who don’t know how to feed themselves so they rely on fast food establishments
It has nothing to do with low income but everything to do with lack of basic culinary skills education and buying in to whatever bone the free market decides to chuck at us…
for eg: I hate Subway - anyone with a single solitary braincell in their head should really know that a sandwich shop isn’t supposed to smell anything like that place - but still they go on walking through the door like the good, assimilated, brainwashed proles that they are and parting with their £2-3 for a “fresh” sandwich made out of dough that has probably been frozen for a year and the cheapest,most heavily processed foodstuffs that even the most undiscerning 24 hour food store proprietor would baulk at if they were asked to stock it in their chiller cabinet…
June 21st, 2008 at 10:20 am
The GX Gallery facelift looks really good, nice re-pointing. At 105, I am afraid I have to disagree regarding Selbourne Village. I feel it to be a misplaced suburban underdevelopment of a site, which, with its many cul-de-sacs and narrow alleys, feels intimidating and unsafe. The use of red brick is totally out of place and oppressive and the design and cheap build quality of the houses is terrible. However I totally agree with you regarding the apartments in the middle of Wren Road and that car park would have been better as a square for a market.
June 21st, 2008 at 10:25 am
NickW @ 114
Oooooh!
I think Sir Alan Dale will have something to say regarding your comments on Selbourne Village…
I do agree they should of been private residential through roads rather than cul-de-sacs - Like I said the Selbourne Road stump next to the Indiaah & Pizza Hut looks completely wrong and slightly intimidating
Just what is the British obsession with cul-de-sacs? I’ve never got it…
June 22nd, 2008 at 5:39 pm
@89 - subsidence and heave. LARGE trees being cut down can cause heave, ground rising - the opposite of subsidence - due to a change in the ground’s water content. Previously the tree’s root system would have removed water from the ground through transpiration and, the tree suddenly having being gone, the ground can literally swell up as a result of the extra retained moisture. Conversely large trees planted not far from building foundations can cause subsidence for exactly the other reason, the ground shrinks gradually as they absorb moisture - so causing foundations to collapse. Then there are the potential problems,separate from heave or subsidence, with root systems physically invading foundations and drains. Sounds like none of these were problems in your neighbours’ case?
@103 Bagel King; well let’s hope not but it has to be likely. Was that prediction an irony, a guess or an informed nod?
@105 the charms of Butterfly Walk; pretty much totally agree. It has always been a scandal that it was built as it is and exactly where it is. It is a shocking mess. There is hope though. But hope resides in small places and a number of serendipitous possibilities happening in the near future.
Camberwell is on a crossroads right now. Much good can happen but there is not a lot of time before the roads close for another couple of generations.
@109 I agree about the stink of the fuish shop but am fairly sure it’s the run off on the pavement that stinks rather than the fish counters or fish themselves.
@113 Subway is difficult to stomach at any level.
@114 GX is a pretty fantastic beacon for Camberwell and should be supported as much and whenever possible. They have great vision for an architectural landmark on the top of the building.
Alan Dale might have something to say about that.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
GX Gallery and Paul’s Olive Shop rock.
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:03 am
I’ve brought various noodles and other asian dry goods form the fish shop in Denmark Hill and those have been very good - although i admit i am slightly dubious about the fish as well. that is more to do with the fact it is sitting on open counters on a very traffic heavy street - i tend not to like my fish with a light coating of exhaust fumes!
Re: the smell i see that the shop also sells Durian fruits which maybe responsible for some of it - Durian absolutely stink!
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:58 am
@116 There’s a sign up on the shop next to the key-cutting shop that says something like, “Bagel King Coming Soon!” I doubt it’s a joke.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Greggs although far from great are still the best if you want a cheap sandwich/snack or something to satisfy a sweet tooth…
To be fair there isn’t a lot of competition - but they are better than all the Americanised chains - if the Bagel shop was to be a replica of the one on Brick Lane then that would be a very good thing indeed…but it won’t so best not to get excited
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I realised that what really stresses me out about Camberwell, what I’ve come to really HATE in the past two years, is the incessant, neverending sirens that go on all the time.
Yesterday on a walk from the crossroads to the park I was passed by about 8 vehicles with sirens on.
You’d think that was normal near a hospital, but most of them were police cars.
And it wasn’t unusual. Often walking from the crossroads towards the art college / town hall I’ll be passed by several vehicles, not all together, all with sirens BLARING out. Usually it’s the police, doubtless doing a really important and wonderful job.
Of course, who’d begrudge a siren to speed up an emergency response. But can all these coppers really be doing it out of necessity? You have to wonder.
Especially when lying in bed late at night and you hear one going off. And this morning there was one at 6.20am. Sorry - there’s no way that road is so busy a siren is warranted at that time.
Anyway, let’s not get distracted on whether cop cars need sirens. Of course they do.
It’s just the constant, bloody endless wail of them all the time. Many of my guests who also live in London have commented on it.
Tired of it, really.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Thanks for the answer about Bagel King Norman, we can look forward to the King’s New Clothes.
@120 I’d forgotten but before I had children I used to go to the bagel shop in Brick Lane early in the morning - errr late at night - 3am-ish quite often. Took loads of friends there. Somehow always even enjoyed their strangely rubbish milkty instant coffee as well. Standing outside in the freezing mid winter lips and tongue burning on the polystyrene cups eating bagels thick with salt beef and hot mustard.
YUMMEEE
Gives me an idea…
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Come to Goodwood with The Sun and Doves on Wednesday 30th July.
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Sorry there was supposed to be a link in the post above
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:49 pm
@122
Mmmmm Salt Beef and Mustard - that Ol’ Jewish classic
Golders Green and Stamford Hill is a bit far for your average Camberwellian to travel to and Gaby’s in Soho is a pale shadow of it’s former incarnation…
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
God forbid that we’d have an American bagel shop…..
June 24th, 2008 at 12:03 am
By the way, well done Tesco on revised plans for Old Kent Road. Bigger supermarket, lots of space for small independents, affordable homes, investment in cycling lanes and (not mentioned in this article but very impressive) improvements to Burgess Park via its new Community Trust - and quite significant ones, too!
Every Little Helps: http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/00,news,10922,440,00.htm
June 24th, 2008 at 9:36 am
I think the Bagel shop will be a branch of the 24 hour one on Walworth road rather than a branch of the Brick Lane Beigal Bake surely?
I’ve never been to the Walworth Road one as my hunger for bagels in the small hours of the morning is not enought to tempt me off the nightbus onto the Walworth Road! However if the bagels are nice i can see this as a positive addition - it would be nice to have somewhere that offers late night snacks that are not chips, kebabs or fried chicken - as i’m not keen on any of those.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Going by the sign, the bagel shop seems to be some kind of joint venture between the Eroma internet cafe and Bagel King, both on the Walworth Road.
Mind you, signs can be misleading. I see from the clapper board outside The Fusion on Church Street that they are offering a £450 lunch! Either they missed a decimal point or Heston Blumenthal has taken over the kitchen.
June 24th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Police sirens at Christmas = Camberwell Christmas carols! Heard it said many times by people not from the area
June 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I’ve never understood why bagel places, in particular, have to be 24 hours. I’m as partial as anyone to a bagel at 3am after a few drinks but it seems a bit masochistic by the owners.
On a completely different topic, I don’t suppose anyone can recommend a good specialist auto electrician in the locality? Evolution Autos off Fielding St - a great recommendation from this site - are keeping the mechanics of my elderly Bedford van ticking over very nicely, but the electrics (think an East German telephone exchange circa 1952 but without the inherent reliability) need an expert, and one with some patience.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Or the Camberwell Chorus as they are more generally known.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
@116 - we bought both of these facts to the attention of the insurance company Mark, but to no avail. Like a sentencing judge, they were unmovable: the tree must die!
Asked the council about a TPO but apparently a tree must be of benefit to the public to have a TPO slapped on and that means visible - so in a front garden or on a public road or other public space.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
The increasing use of sirens in the past few years is all part of the terrorisation of Britain. Keep everyone on edge. Look here’s a bizzy being busy! Let’s get more CCTV in!
June 24th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Mark - some interesting tree facts - thanks.
Richie - one powerful public benefit argument is the maintenance of biodiversity, as trees are host to numerous predators of moths, ants, ‘roaches and rodents - of more than passing interest to the average Londoner as their circle of predations greatly exceeds the property on which the tree is situate.
Another is preservation of garden and green space, with trees strengthening soil, preventing it eroding, and preventing it being paved. Great for the flash floods from upstream which are in store for Londoners in the next decade or so.
Others are air quality, disruption of strong winds that buffet buildings, absorption of sunlight and heat capable of damaging brickwork and causing problems for neighbouring properties, regulation of humidity, absorption of noxious gases from neighbours’ DIY, entrepeurial experiments and amateur mechanical repairs.
Let’s face it, they’d get around that too - planners just hate trees and it’s not rational. Three mature cypresses newly hacked down on the New Road with no requirement to replant, is proof enough of that.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Boris Johnson will double bus & tram fares for 75,000 of London’s poor.
On the bright side, his floppy hair is so charming; and that tackle in that football game was hilarious!
June 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Early days for our Boris but he does keep me amused. His Trafalgar art bit yesterday was vintage.
‘Planners hate trees’. ?! Still Regeneguru, you have to find merit with the Tesco plans. Not sure if they include trees but good news elsewhere.
June 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Newroad - hardly news about the planners, who mostly view trees as an unnecessary complication in an otherwise perfectly ordered and predictable world.
Tescos thing sounds good, but reads like a press release. Need a lot more information before forming a judgement.
I look forward to the tennis courts for employees, if they can spare a few car parking spaces.
June 24th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I’ll be very interested to see what kind of independent trader can prosper next door to a gigantic Tesco. Also: that’s some disgusting architecture.
June 24th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Uh, I’m confused. What does a Tesco expanding on the Old Kent Road have to do with people who live in Camberwell? No one’s actually going to go down there to do their shopping, are they? Not unless you’re going to drive down, in which case you’ll get bad juju from Regeneguru.
The development of Myatt’s Fields is of much more relevance. It’s going to have a pond and a cafe and everything! And they’re going to renovate the third tennis court! Nice!
June 25th, 2008 at 1:22 am
http://www.thecansfestival.com/
Leake St seems to bare a permanent legacy of Cans. Get down there and have a look.
It’s right next to Avis so you can return your Mondeo then stroll through Leake St to get the 176 back to Camberwell.
I am very excited about Camberwell but then I just had two pints of Shrimpers and some Joloff rice.
Flip side - I saw a tramp begging at one of the windows on the Grove. He asked me for some change but I just shook my rice at him.
Interesting to hear that people fear the nooks and crannies of Selborne. Terrifying cul-de-sacs?! The only thing frightening about living in a cuntysack is the crushing normality. But perhaps you lot are just as normal as me. Maybe even more normal. Doubt it. I am very normal. Last week I sat next to my doppelganger on the train. Happens a lot. Avoid Denmark Hill Station. It’s full of us. Normal normals.
That said I’m always the only cracker in 4T4. Perhaps that’s why I went there in the first place. Craving originality in this city full of clones. On the London Bridge train I am a WASP drone. In 4T4LSACuisine I am a Whafrican. Pathetic.
Try 4T4 though yam haters. How can this town be so full of yamophobes? You took a wrong turn somewhere. Retrace your steps or convert. I can’t be Camberwell’s only yamaphrodite.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Sorry Norman you are right. Burgess Park is not technically Camberwell. But some of us remember when it was.
The Tesco plan includes money to improve Burgess Park via their Community Trust. Sorry to step outside Camberwell and well done for Myatts Fields.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:03 am
@142 Err… A large part of Burgess Park is in SE5 - not Tesco though - and it is fairly local. The people who live in Grosvenor Park consider themselves to be in Camberwell.
@141 Yamalicious Alanalicious Daleicious you are a man without fear. I was brought up on yams yet somehow the thought still freaks me out. I must repent.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Tell it to Norman. He doesn’t want to hear about things that will improve Burgess Park. Myatts Fields is Camberwell’s only park to him.
Of course the Camberwell Community Council serves neither.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:25 am
That’s probably cos Myatts Fields is in Lambeth and i think Camberwell Community Council is run by Southwark.
Myatts Fields is a lovely park but Burgess Park urgently needs some love and attention! Perhaps we could get together and bid for some of the money that Boris has promised for Park improvements to make Burgess Park less rubbish.
BTW Camberwell also has Ruskin Park which is a very fine park.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:17 am
@Peter - the traders used to do nicely where that supermarket now stands, until the mid-century, all stripey canopies and blooming wares spilling out onto pavements, with proud apron-clad independent shopkeepers.
Then came the Luftwaffe, Tesco, and the second great age of the national parks - car parks on this occasion … a planning system which carefully stacked the odds in favour of the new obesogene bulk-buyers and throwers-away, and passed applications to convert shops to residential as easily as wind.
Why improve the green parks, though? Nature, innit. But it’s a shame that mature trees are being chopped down wholesale along our roads. These are what links up the green park biotopes and help preserve what little urban biodiversity we have left, as the industrial farmland we call the