Camberwell Public Meeting
Published by People's Republic of Southwark | Filed under Events, General, Guest Author, Politics
A little while back, as I was talking to one Camberwellian, I said something like, “there’s so much good will in Camberwell but do we need to be louder?” The Camberwellian replied, “it’s always the same people who get to do anything.’”
Those same people have done some good work, SE5 Forum, The Camberwell Society, Camberwell Renewal, to name but a few. But what about the large proportion of those who are not in any way involved in any of the mentioned groups? Part of the reason for the apparent apathy when it comes to being actively involved with your surroundings could be lack of information about ways to get involved, or (un)intentional obscurity of available information. One of the things we, the People’s Republic of Southwark, had found out on our monthly events is that, while the cyber communications are significant and precious, nothing beats the RL (real life) people interaction.
So we are now hoping to set up a very very public meeting to find out how those who for whatever reason feel excluded from decision making feel about the demise of Camberwell and how we go about making a difference.
Any help with any aspect of organising this would be greatly appreciated.
Some of the things which I think would need to be worked out at the beginning are:
- which areas would come under the ‘Camberwell’ umbrella?
- how would we engage people (not just TRA committees) living in those areas?
- which officials would need to be involved (councillors/TFL/GLA representatives)?
- what would be the best way of determining the agenda/running the meeting?
- what are the current initiatives/issues around Camberwell? Where are they at?
If any of you have experience of any of the above (organising large scale events; lobbying/negotiation with the local government; promotion, etc) please let us know if you would be able to help out in any capacity/for any length of time.
Thank you
peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.co.uk
I know that some of what I am about to say has been said before but thought I would put it all out there to see what people think.
I think having a set agenda is a good idea and asking people what they want to talk about is good, but how about having some kind of board on the night where people can pin up / write a note on issues that concern them. This could also provide a talking point / launch pad for further discussions.
Regards the format of the night. Pick the themes we want to talk about and then have a timescale and invite people to give their ideas and opinions. Rather than people attacking any official people that are there, maybe it should just be an opportunity to listen to others first and then have a break to mull it over before coming back with a plan of action. Or maybe a workshop format…
I think it would be a good idea to try and also invite people to come from the organisations and bodies to listen to what people have to say.
Although the agenda isn’t set (and any ideas on how to do that?), I wonder if it would be a good idea to invite someone from the TfL, if there are issues regarding transport as well as the train and bus operators, as well as a representative from both Southwark and Lambeth Councils. Not to mention our supposed representative in parliament, Harriet Harman (I’m sure I have a flak jacket around somewhere if she needs it).
I think that at least showing both Lambeth and Southwark councils that we really do care about the area as much as they care for their votes may help. (A shame that Harman is in such a safe seat, oh that we could vote in someone else…)
Also what about inviting all the owners of the small businesses, a proportion of whom are Cypriots. What are their thoughts and ideas regarding the community?
The other thought is how to get people involved who you normally wouldn’t see involved…The only way I can see that happening is by knocking on doors and telling people. For example the estate where I live has 300 flats with about 1000 residents. I am not sure that a lot of them are even aware of the SE5 forum or Camberwell on-line or Camberwell Soc etc., or think that it is relevant to them. How do you make a group that wants to improve an area relevant to everyone that lives there. Do the people who haven’t spoken out have issues with where they live? Are they silent becuse they are happy or because they do not know what and where to say something.
Anyway, that’s my two pence worth. I would be more than happy to help out in any way needed.
I thought all this was what the SE5 Forum was set up to do but it seems to have died a slow death (or is not telling anyone about whats its doing if it is indeed doing anything)
I think it is absolutely crucial that any meeting gets the attention of the elected politicians and the officers — its all very well for 10s or even 100s of concerned individuals to gather together and decide soemthing needs to be done but worthless if the people who can actually make the changes are not aware of sentiment. But crucially we must present the politicians/officals with a set of demands that are achievable and in areas where they have control.
It is therefore vital that our GLA member Valerie Shawcross attends as does Caroline Pigeon (Lib Dem ‘list’ GLA member, Southwark Councillor and Camberwell resident) and Jennie Jones (Green party GLA list member, Southwark Councillor) as well as local Camberwell councillors and the executive members for portfolios such as regenration, transport, housing etc on Southwark borough council. Also Transport for London officials need to attend. As for Lambeth I think it is perhaps a bit over optimistic to expect Lambeth politicans to come along to talk about Camberwell town centre — it is clearly outside their area of responsibility. However it might be worth talking to the North Lambeth and Brixton town centre managers and area teams (officials) as their areas of responsibility come up to the Southwark border.
And vitally any new initiative needs a public affairs strategy — we need Southwark News, South London Press along to publicise and then report on the meeting.
One thought occurs to me — would it be possible to link any event with existing council consultation structures? Eg there is the Camberwell Community Council etc which is already operating. It may also be worth looking at the efforst that Lambeth have taken with Brixton — in consultation with local people they have developed the Vision for Brixton initiative
See the various Brixton masterplan initiatives — http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/AboutLambeth/Brixton.htm
And link any initiative with the art college — surely they want to be involved with the local area and art is one of the things that makes Camberwell different from other South East London communities and gives it international prominence.
“I thought all this was what the SE5 Forum was set up to do but it seems to have died a slow death (or is not telling anyone about whats its doing if it is indeed doing anything)”
The latter.
Noodels City update. They have installed two smaller red signs in the window that are spelled correctly.
Thus I’m guessing the main one is definitely a mistake.
Suggest we put some bricks through their windows. Perhaps discuss this at the big public meeting that’s brewing?
Buddha Jazz the other day. Food quite nice but setting much better. A proper “romantic” restaurant. Good service. Terrible music though, they really need to look at that. Bee Gees and other stuff… Makes a change from Chinese flutes though I guess.
On communities. Apart from the bible bashing Africans, the junkie/alkie contigent on the Green, the gangs, the old Cypriots and some of the parental groups, this is the only community I’ve ever really noticed in Camberwell.
Educated, interested, bothered, probably largely white (though I’m not), our little community is just another minority. Good luck Monkeycat, you have my support, for what it’s worth.
I walked past Noodels City last night. There were quite a large number of people happily enjoying their noodels, which I suppose is a good thing…
Yes of course they were, and that’s great, but wouldn’t they have been happier in Noodles City.
Given Phil G’s comment above, it seems appropriate to link to this description of Camberwell ‘community’ from Nov 2007:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/nov/12/comment.homeaffairs
I would add to my list some of the squats that are around, though I’ve never seen them, apart from the Bickleigh, which isn’t really a squat. But you know what I mean…
And Gaycamberwell’s fine group of course.
@mumu — that is so incredibly helpful, mumu, and i’ll have a look at what brixton are doing as soon as ive had at least 10 hours sleep! would you have time to have a look at a draft email to the gla/council people once we’ve drafted it (early next week)? i’d rather do this in emails than here, so if you can, drop me a line.
as for ‘who should be doing what’ — what we are trying to encourage is co-operation rather than the ‘people’s front of judea’ tribalism. i have only been aware of the se5 forum for the last year and a half perhaps and yes it is very quiet at times and yes at times it seems that they’re not doing much and yes, apart from mark dodds, i don’t know who the other board members are or what it is they do. but they do seem to be doing something, albeit quite sporadically.
thanks for all your suggestions, keep’em coming!
lili
@Phil G.
I know it isn’t immediately evident that there are functioning communities out there, but I think there are. Community as a concept in the UK has changed vastly over the last 50 years, but it’s still around — just in smaller manifestations. There are Tenants/Residents Associations here and there, political parties and campaign groups, faith groups and congregations and those formed around ethnicity, gender or sexuality. The objectives of each of these sometimes put them in conflict with eachother, but that’s inevitable, I suppose. It’s all going on out there.
SE5 Forum is still around and active but has been quiet. For reasons too complicated to write here. I’ll be happy to come to a meeting to explain more fully what has been (and not been) happening and why. The website I’ve been droning on about for years is due to go live next week.
Over years I’ve leafleted the estates in Camberwell with invites to SE5 Forum meetings and talked to many shopkeepers (still do when I can) and I can assure you it’s not for want of trying to get people involved that people don;t get involved. There is deep universal skepticism about the value of local involvement.
Anyway that’s all in the past. Never give up.
Lots of young gang activity on the Peckham Road tonight. The death-cult community are looking for human sacrifices. Thus ancient and modern walk hand in hand down Cemetery Road.
Dilys M. Hill’s “Participating in Local Affairs (1970, Pelican Original, 30p or 6/-) still has some useful points even though it was written before the publication of the Redliffe-Maud Report and the Skeffington Committee Report.
Millwall lost 0–1 at home today to Brighton & Hove Albion, whose supporters chant, my man tells me, “You’re too ugly to be gay.”
Anybody know who made the final audience comment on last week’s Question Time from Peckham? Was it someone here?
“I don’t think we should trivialise the (crime) issue at all. I mean Harriet Harman is the MP for this area. I live in the centre of Camberwell and between Christmas and New Year, we had one elderly pensioner beaten to death in her own home, a 15 year old girl stabbed to death, a young man of 25 stabbed to death, countless stabbings and another old lady kicked to death in Camberwell Green and robbed. And I think that is a very serious matter and maybe it is time for a general election.”
I’m not sure I’d be so quick to agree that that what we are talking about is Camberwell’s demise. I’ve only lived here five years, but I don’t think Camberwell has gone downhill in that time. I don’t think it feels less safe, for example…
Broadly speaking, the two things that would make a difference to my experience of life in Camberwell would be:
(i) a reduction in crime
(ii) more places of the Castle / Sun and Doves / Caravaggios / Cruson ilk.
The first would suggest engagement with the police is needed. I suspect that they’d be keen — Layla and I have been beseiged by contact from Southwark police’s LGBT liaison officer.
And on the second, I wonder whether we are too quick to pass blame? I was walking back from Denmark Hill station last night and passed The Dark Horse (empty), Seymours (can’t remember how to spell the new name, but also empty) and the Funky Munkey (empty). If we want Camberwell to thrive, we need to make sure that people go out more often locally. Dwelling on Camberwell’s “demise”, will surely ensure that it does happen. And Layla and I have found — albeit on a small scale — that it’s not so very hard to encourage people out. I’m just off for the film at the Castle have regularly been attracting 25 — 45 people each week…
By the way, I’d be interested to know what the transport concerns are vis a vis Camberwell? I’ve never lived in an area that’s so well connected, and we’re to get the tube by 2012…
Oh dear, I fear for the first time in my life I’m sounding like a conservative…
@roz yes you are
but it’s ok
i used the word ‘demise’ to try and reflect a lot of frustration that people have been expressing lately on a range of things — from what i gather, camberwell was pretty much forgotten for years, as many other parts of southwark got the attention/funding/support etc. maybe ‘diagnosis’ would’ve been a better, less negative word if you like, because that’s what the idea is, to diagnose and do something about it.
there are a lot of things wrong with transport, and boris’s permission for motorcyclists to use bus lanes (although london-wide) is just one of the things i can think of. there is also the fact that majority of people living in camberwell are not car owners, which in turn means that majority of traffic flow, traffic pollution and traffic fatalities are caused by people who only pass through camberwell, not contributing to the community or economy in any way. camberwell council tax payers are the ones funding the traffic flow/pollution/fatalities, not the drivers. a lot of other, specific things have been previously mentioned both here and on the se5 forum.
for me at the moment, there is not a single place in camberwell where id want to regularly go out. the arts bar at funky munky may become the one space, as it is going to be run by an artist (as opposed to someone for whom this would be the main source of income). there is no space where you can go and perhaps just hang out, rather than have to spend money in order to have a good time (i’m still not sure why these two seem to have to be linked?). there are no spaces where you can hang out and have food/non-alcoholic drink and pay by donation.
thanks for your feedback, though — what’s LGBT by the way? (im so rubbish at acronyms)
and that was written by me age 14 1/2
and in case i sounded a bit snobby up there, i do not have a problem with the existence of pubs, i like sun & doves myself, for example, the problem i have is with lack of alternatives. the end
LGBT = Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender. Then there is queer, genderqueer, intergender and best of all, agender. “What’s on the agender tonight? “Whatever you want. Then we can swap.” Not being queer is entirely normal, so is being queer entirely normal. Good God, if you can’t be normal either way in Camberwell, where can you? We should rebrand it Yeswecanberwell.
I fear that there aren’t many places in the world that you can hang out without spending any money. Even when we were in Eritrea there seemed to be an enthusiasm for the odd pence to fund an urchin or two. Hurrah for Camberwell library. And Ruskin park. Even if the latter is a bit chilly.
Personally, I would happily spend a lot of time in any of number of Camberwell venues. Which, in fact, is exactly what I do. My only complaint / dream is the lack of cinema. I tend to think that we need to be regularly using — and encouraging others to do so — the decent venues / facilities etc that we have, or else other businesses won’t be motivated to come to Camberwell. And there is certainly an appetite for events in Camberwell…
Re LGBT: in the middle of today’s film, I was called down by three eager police officers who wanted to find out my views about Camberwell and gaydom more generally. I took their card, and they said they would be eager to hear any thoughts on any subject relating to Camberwell.…
Be careful, if they are eager, they are probably gay. “Eager” lost to “gay” by a narrow margin in the LGBT PC Nomenclature voting a few years ago, along with “happy”, “fervid”, “fast”, “effervescent” and, in the 1980s, “glad”, short for gladioli. “Is she gladioli?” “Yes, she’s like a whippet up a drainpipe, that gal.” Glad would have been good. “Glad to be glad.”
The parks are great in Camberwell for meeting fellow impecunious people of all walks of life — mincing, strutting, voguing, charlestoning. Lucas, Brunswick, Ruskin, Myatt’s all have dining tables — you take your own scran and grog, you meet all kinds of people. My advice is take a book. People think you’re interesting. Or a notepad — people think you’re deep.
@PhilG:
You can’t know all the people all the time. There are lots of smaller groups of communities and interest groups in Camberwell. They all have different ideas and values.
The point of getting people together is to shout out about what we have in common without trying to stifle the differences that make Camberwell an interesting place to live.
@Roz:
I probably go out most of the time in Camberwell, with only the occasional venture into town for Theatre and Exhibitions. But yes, going out does involve cash these days. However, apparently we have to spend our way out of this recession.
@people in general who talk about Camberwell going downhill:
I am sure there are some things that get worse or better at any particular point in time, but over time I think things have improved. I remember Camberwell 10 years ago and it wasn’t quite so interesting. I also have friends who used to live here who tell me that they wish they could come back as Camberwell has much more to offer. I have other friends who think I am a jammy sod for having so much on my doorstep and so close to town.
@ Liliana
“there are a lot of things wrong with transport, and boris’s permission for motorcyclists to use bus lanes (although london-wide) is just one of the things i can think of.”
And what is wrong with motorcyclists using bus lanes then? Better to have them using a lane which is otherwise pretty empty for 3 or 4 minutes out of every 5 than ride in the centre of the road against oncoming traffic, surely ???
I happen to think Camberwell transport is great — then again i live near Camberwell Green and am a bus person so i find it ok (also i grew up in a place where more than 2 buses a day was considered good public transport!)
What i dislike about the area are the pockets of squalor — many of the residents, businesses and public bodies seem to have no interest in keeping any thing clean and tidy (there are obviously a few honourable exceptions!) People (pedestrians and motorists) can also be very selfish and have no concept of sharing space properly with each other. On to the crime — i’m not sure i’ve lived in SE London (SE14, SE15 and SE5) for over 10 years and i haven’t seen it get much worse. what i think i have seen is an increase in fear (myself included) and also a possible increase in very public fueds — for example the man who was shot in the head in broad daylight in east Dulwich yesterday. (shamefully my first thougth was i wonder how that will affect house prices in nappy valley)
Motorcyclists in bus lanes is a proven way to save lives.
As usual the cyclists think they have some sort of divine right to the space — witness the London Cycling Campaign’s opposition to it.
But the fact it is that it has made little difference to them so far.
If your average London cyclist had half the respect for road rules or the skill of your average motorbiker, the city would be a much safer place.
This from a motorcyclist and big road race cycling enthusisast.
I agree regarding transport: I think Camberwell’s public transport is excellent. Rarely do you encounter a place with so many transport links: I can get almost anywhere in half an hour by bus, and rarely wait more than a few minutes for one to turn up. The tube is coming to Denmark Hill, but a brisk walk north or west already leads you tubewards (north London friends happily live 20 minutes from the nearest tube and still claim it as their station). The train is also efficient and available. And having just bought a bike (in the lovely Edwarde’s), I am also now being introduced to the cycle routes of the area. And quite frankly, if you’re feeling energetic, many places are walkable. I can honestly say I have never lived anywhere with such good transport links.
@Liliana — I know what you mean about places to go and hang-out.
I like pubs, but not all the time, and pub-goers can get tiresome.
I’d like somewhere vegan/organic/arty/hip/cheap to go.
this could be good? south london gallery cafe
In Brussels they have an indoor public space at the heart of the city which has a bar/cafe, information booths, gallery space, free wifi, etc; all publicly funded. It would be amazing to have a space like that.
Met this girl from work at an SE5 bus stop the other day and realised she has been living here for a year or so.
What do you make of it then, I ask? Don’t like it she says. Well, have you tried this pub as I think you’d like it, or that restaurant, have you been here, here and there? No to everything. So what the f—k do you do here then, I thought? Sleep?
But this was not unusual. Met a city professional who has lived on the edge of SE5 in her own house for 4 years. That’s 4 years. Has never been to any of the SE5 pubs, restaurants etc, not even with her flatmate. To be fair, I think she looked more to SE15, but still.
Even if your social life does revolve around work and central London, I still don’t understand these people.
Maybe the transport in Camberwell is TOO good — it encourages people to go and socialise elsewhere instead of staying near home and appreciating what SE5 has to offer! Thus good venues are at risk of losing money due to lack of custom, which leads to businesses viewing Camberwell as a poor place to start up (unless they are of the noodels variety, of course).
I met a Camberwellian at a party a few weeks ago. He had never been out in Camberwell despite living here for over a year. He said he assumed it was all crap. An indignant lecture on the merits of Camberwell’s venues ensued…
Perhaps an effective plan of action would be to publicise the good things we already have in Camberwell and concentrate on luring people out to socialise in their local area! Lots of the local pubs are making a good effort to do this with innovative ideas, for instance the Castle is starting salsa classes this week, and hopefully comedy next month, the Sun and Doves is hosting Wotever cabaret/club nights every Saturday and all manner of other interesting things, the Joiner’s Arms is having comedy on the first Thursday of the month… The local businesses want and need our custom, and are motivated to lure locals into their establishments. How can we help them?
Quite right Phil — i guilty of not socialising in SE5 as much as i could but iif you treat where you live like a dormitary that’s what it will become. In the last three weeks or so i’ve drunk in the Hermits Cave, the Cambria and the Sun and Doves. I’ve eaten at Lamoon, the Sun and Doves and The Sea Cow (more SE22 i know!) and shopped in Cruson, Sophocles, Howard Bros and Pesh flowers as well as the usual chains.
When I moved back here, with the wife, almost five years ago, we used to go out to dinner at least once a month to try something new; now we go out more often than that, but tend to end up going to a small set of regular places.
I think the amount of variety has gone down in that time; there’s a lot more Indian/Chinese/Asian than there used to be, there’s no tapas anymore (there used to be two), no pizza, more standard pub fare, less modern British. It’s not a huge drift, but it is noticeable. Of course we can get those things around, but that’s not supporting local businesses.
Wishlist: tapas (i.e. Angels & Gypsies), Japanese, Mexican (NOT Tex-Mex)/S. American. Anyone been to El Vergel in Borough? Fantastic S. American cafe. I’d give my left nut (not really) to have something like that here.
ok here goes stuff i only just discovered (possibly not news for majority of people on here)
http://southwarklivingstreets.org.uk/3-camberwell-cc/
(check out the ‘vision for camberwell’ link, it’s a presentation they did to camberwell community council i think last year
also, http://southwarklivingstreets.org.uk/2008/06/28/southwark-living-streets-southwark-cyclists-campaign-for-sustainable-transport/
(check out the ‘connected southwark’ pdf file
Hey Peter — I was poking around Brixton the other day and found a couple of Colombian / S American cafes that may be good. Yet to try. They’re in that warren of lanes that make up a market off Coldharbour.
As for going out in SE5, I guess some may find it difficult if they don’t know local folk. I’m lucky in that I have some friends and colleagues nearby, though we had enough of the Munky ages back. Also I’m lazy and sometimes I just can’t be ar5ed to get a bus into the city. And I like exploring my environs. It’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? Having your own ‘hood.
Having said that, I still go out more in London centre than in SE5. Camberwell is small, after all.
Been hanging at The Joiner’s a bit more recently.
Hannah — sounds like you’re getting a good start.
@Peter — El Vergel is/was superb. Haven’t been for a while. Thanks for the reminder.
On a downer, there’s practically zero vegetarian places around here. I got used to that long ago.
gaycamberwell — if transport is so good in Camberwell, why do so many people own cars and park them on street? Perhaps because buses — however many there are — are unpredictable both in their initial arrival time and overall journey time. CNR and Walworth are massive logjams. Cars can spend hours in traffic but this is ‘acceptable’ due to the perception of greater safety and control over your environment.
“What can we do…” no offence, but I do not accept there is serious interest here in protecting local businesses. It is very obvious that visitor parking is the best way to protect them, and those who blog and campaign are likely to park on-street as residents (unlike the typical Camberwellian), so will be conflicted from campaigning for dedicated visitor parking for shops near them. To survive, as Labour ministers have pontificated, small business must adapt by offering more niche services. But this involves casting your client net more widely, and having some kind of visitor infrastructure, of which there is none outside the Green.
Phil G — jury is out on motorbikes in cycle lanes and will be for 2–3 years yet, as obviously the bikers will be on best behaviour during the “evaluation” period. Sure, bikers are not the main enemy (goods vehicles, “tourist” coaches). But there are still bikers who subscribe to the hierarchy of engine size = social importance which is harmful to bikers themselves when larger vehicles dispute their right of way. Is a courier biker on his way to a cup of Bovril more important than a cyclist doctor of 20 years’ experience?
Also, bikers should not be in the cyclist boxes, plus many often adopt a right-of-lane position which demonstrates their ignorance of a cyclist’s need of that position in order to protect themselves from aggressive manoeuvres from cars behind.
Ms Lilliani, if you did a bit more research before you accused the Camberwell Society and other local groups of being ineffectual, you´d find you are ill informed on your accusations. When´s the last time you attended a Community Council meeting?
Your thinly veiled political ´meeting´holds little appeal to me. I believe much has been and is being done here. I spent about 2 minutes on your website and I don´t believe your group is well placed to lead us to the next stage.
Ms Roz, you seem the type of person we need more of around here. Thank you for all your positive energy.
@regeneguru:
Not that many people in Camberwell do own cars. There are always spare parking spaces all around Camberwell, at any time of day or night. And generally there are very few parking restrictions, i.e. permits and pay and display spaces, except on Grove Lane, Camberwell Grove, the council owned estates and the hospital. I have never had an issue parking anywhere around Camberwell. I have to admit though that I was not aware that the “traffic calming measures” would also mean creating parking bays on the roads. It has made things a little more difficult, but in general there are still plenty of spaces around Camberwell Green and East of Camberwell Church Street.
Compare this to Clapham or Brixton where it is almost impossible to park unless you have a permit and everywhere else is subject to pay and display and zealous traffic wardens.
There is also a free carpark behind Butterfly Walk. You can park there and then go to anywhere in town within less than a minute.
Could you please explain more what your issue is with parking as I genuinely don’t understand.
Gay parking? Ha! Spanking is as normal as anything. Bondage is liberating. And here’s something really kinky. If you buy shoes at the Clarks Factory shop on Rye Lane, Peckham, not only can robustly jolly lesbians get properly put-together brogues there, but irritating nancy boys and simpering sissies can buy strappy high heels — and they all get a bill from the shop with the postcode on it SE15 5EX.
Traffic-calming? I don’t think so!
The car bays are a pre-cursor for the CPZ which is apparently on its way soooooon. Had something through the door from the council a while back.
While I am a Camberwell car-owner we rarely use it, just for the odd trip oop north with the kids to see family and the obligatory weekly shop (can’t seem to get on with doing it online).
The buses are too good to go getting the car out all the time.
And besides, if you dare move from your parking space on our little street you won’t get back in until after the magistrates court has closed for the day. Try walking two streets from car to house with three kids under 4 and a load of shopping — walking or bussing is best!
I assume it’s a money spinner, as these are supposed to be for when there is a parking problem.
Quoting the southwark council website:
“The public consultation showed support for the introduction of a new CPZ in East Camberwell. This was supported by parking occupancy and duration surveys which demonstrated a high demand for parking and significant commuter parking in the area.”
Is that really so, not withstanding the area around the courthouse?
See more here:
http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourServices/transport/parking/cpzreviews/ECCPZ.html
There is definitely a parking problem during week days in nearby Elmington Road. Hopefully the CPZ will fix it.
We get people parking here and walking to the nearby town hall, the court house, high street — even for Kings. And we also get commuters who seem to park here and then get buses elsewhere (I’ve seen various people dressed in London Transport uniforms heading up to the bus stops).
The street is half empty during weekends — which shows how few residents own cars.
“Those who blog and campaign are likely to park on-street as residents” — not sure if that was aimed at me, but I don’t own or drive a car. I cycle or take public transport everywhere.
Transport is OK — so long as you like buses and traffic.
@supportsociety: i see you completely misinterpreted the post — i never claimed to know everything or to want to ‘lead’ anyone.
as i said before, it would be great to get any update on both the current issues/initiatives as well as where things are at, so if you do have any information, please share it.
thanks
Do you tip electricians?
having some work done in my flat, are you supposed to tip? First time at this whole home-owning game.
Genfink Tipping hairdressers,cabs, and takeaway deliverers okay. Definitley not Electricians or Plumbers
dammit I tipped the plumber.
Thanks for the advice.
I gave my plumber a bottle of wine for a job well done. He was really pleased.
On the other hand I docked cash from another workman for missing something out.
I don’t think there are rules. If you liked the job then what’s wrong with a small tip?
Monkeycat, large numbers of people own cars in Camberwell, but they are still a minority due to high residential density here. I disagree with your implication that an empty road space is always a “useable storage space” for a car. The permanent resident car infrastructure in most roads locally here has effectively reduced the roads’ widths by over 2/5 within a matter of decades and not content with this have invaded the pavements, effectively closing down Peckham Road Post Office.
My point has always been that dedicated visitor parking should take place over residents, who should walk the extra minute. You are new to Camberwell, but take a walk down Southampton Way, Denmark Road, Grove Lane, and do note the converted shops, neighbouring empty ones, which are crowded out by residents cars, preventing suppliers and visitor parking, or even crossing the road at that point.
Peter, it was not aimed at you.
.…..
sg — “The street is half empty during weekends — which shows how few residents own cars.”
Or perhaps have second homes, as several posters here have admitted, leaving the Camberwell economy barren each weekend as they floor it through the junction south to Brighton, leaving true locals eating their dust and a stale croissant from Tadim.
regen — nope, most residents don’t own cars. Scooters and pushbikes maybe.
Is your gripe with second home owners or with people who don’t spend time or money in Camberwell?
You don’t need to be a second home owner in order to vacate Camberwell at weekends or decide to spend your money elsewhere, as we all know.
If the quality was better, people would spend their money here — end of.
Sorry Ms Lilianni but I don´t think your post and subsequent clarifications make sense at all. I believe there is another agenda here and won´t be part of it. I dipped onto this website to respond given one of our members outrage. Just reading a few days now I see why I should stay away. Mr/Ms Regeneguru, you seem intelligent but misguided and hellbent on drawing attention to yourself by winding people up. You also don´t make much sense with your silliness. It seems you and Ms Lilliani are cut from the same cloth. Next you´ll be telling us folks in the Grove we must surrender our homes for subdividing so that we can house more people. Enough. Goodbye all. My hope for Camberwell has been dampened by my visit here.
Morning there, Camberwellians!
I write a weekly slot in Time Out’s Big Smoke section called Bench Marks, which every week covers the often touching story behind London’s memorial benches (in parks or roadside). I’d love to cover any stories in South East London — can anyone help? Email benchpoetry@gmail.com
I find it hard to believe that many people living in SE5, except perhaps those on the Grove, have 2nd homes.
Ms Lilianni what is your agenda? Sounds exciting…
No, SupportSociety, wait! What about me? What do you think of my useful food tips and passion for spelling?
Some would say you are a hoax / wind-up merchant but please stay. I like you.
” — nope, most residents don’t own cars.”
Then we agree. Based on this fact, the interests of the majority of residents in a new CPZ do not reside in protecting a local right to park. Hopefully you would agree that all residents have an equal claim to an interest in how public space is used locally, when any consultation is made on the subject … unless there is a suggestion that the local car owner is some kind of super-citizen, with special rights?
I therefore look forward to an unhypocritical campaign for a CPZ consultation in which the option of dedicated visitor parking for all shops (1 space each) is included, which would tend to leave the streets clear of car clutter.
regenu, you can hope all you like.
The CPZ is on its way in our area. They marked the roads today. Consultation over.
So long as it means I can drive my car away during weekdays and be able to find a parking space when I return, its cool.
Don’t really care about visitor parking for shops — if the shops are so good, people will find a way to get to them, won’t they? Even if it means parking a distance away and walking to them.
And I’m not sure non-car owning local residents will care much about visitor parking either. They probably already walk to the shops.
Camberwell’s legendary retail outlet, the 99p store(s) now has a rival in the Elephant & Castle shopping centre.
A ‘98p store’!
You couldn’t make it up.…
(Who’ll be the first to spot a 97p store on our manor?)
@merrick — do they sell ping pong balls?
SupportSociety, you have Lily Allen fever! Ms Liliana brings us interesting insights from her 24 years in Belgrade. Ms Lilianni, by contrast, is a burlesque (shall we say) Lily Allen tribute singer whom you must surely be thinking of from your evenings at the Vauxhall Tavern?
Ms Regeneguru is not hellbent on being silli. He is well versed in Citipedagogui and is more Gramsci than Trotski, surely. What? Your hope for Camberwell has been dampened? Don’t be so wet! I mean, please accept that all of us have great respect for the Camberwell Society, simply because it is listened to by those in authority. That really says something.
We are a broad crunch here in Camberwell. The word “crusty” applies to two wildly different sets of people at each end of our spectrum. Your offer of accomodation would reassure you — if people take it up — that Camberwell is simply teeming with all the variety and vitality of Darwin’s Fraggle Rockers.
All God’s bunnies have their place here! Why, look in Lidl, and you will see even there the whirling kaleidoscope of creation reflected in the freezer cabinets. I think it was Browning who once wrote:
Fourlined tonguesole rolls, thee quid,
Battered prawns, musky squid.
All life is here in our local Lidl,
Grinning madly from their frozen idyll.
Blimey, SupportSociety.
If you really do represent opinion within the Camberwell Society – and I should stress I have my doubts – then it really doesn’t reflect well on you lot. Did a member really actually “outrage” at the opinions on this blog? Perhaps they need to get out more, digitally speaking. There’s plenty to get outraged about on the Interweb, but this friendly, informative and well-run forum really isn’t among that.
Such bizarre interjections are almost enough to perpetuate the folk myth that the Society largely consists of grey-haired grandees issuing fatwas about conservation from the snug security of a five-storey Georgian terrace. But I hope I’d never subscribe to such a blinkered view.
Two other random points:
- Camberwell empties of cars every weekend because we’re all off to our second homes? That’s surely the most bizarre notion I’ve ever read on this site. Where are these second homes, anyway? Plaistow? Norwood?
- Motorcyclists in cycle lanes: I have my concerns about this, not so much due to the riders of big bikes, who generally know their stuff, but because of the legions of idiots on scooters, many of whom weave dangerously in and out of traffic as it is. They also have a terrible habit of overtaking me in heavy traffic and getting immediately stuck, holding me up.
Dagmar, your ode to credit crunch shopping is lovely. It should be inscribed in sandstone at the entrance to every Lidl.
This sounds like an interesting new initiative — an “Arts Bar” (though I do have my concerns about the deliberateness or otherwise of the apostrophe involved): http://www.se5forum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1133.0.html
@support society: ‘folks in the Grove we must surrender our homes for subdividing so that we can house more people’ — now there’s a thought!
@philg: secret agendas gallore here, clearly
although you want to watch out for the passion for spelling as it don’t seem very popular with some
@merrick: I saw a £2 store on the Walworth Road the other day. Now that is radical thinking.
Anyone know what was being filmed in Addington Square and Burgess Park this morning?
@stephen — the bench guy
There are some benches in Warwick Gardens which are part of the original I Love Peckham concept.
IIRC, artists went around fixing stuff – mainly park benches — and carving love hearts into the designs.
It was/is very cool.
“I Love Peckham” has since become a brand used in regeneration projects, council festivals, estate agent copy, etc.
It was all catalogued at http://www.ilovepeckham.com at one point, but that appears to have expired.
@dagmar: you’re GOOD! btw do i know you in real life?
I am a hard-working Danish girl with two daughters and a collection of very frayed denim miniskirts, each with a tale to tell. I have two sisters, Grace and Maude. Maude is a bloke. But that’s Camberwell for you!
ah, yes
I Love Peckham was started by Mark Folds, a sculptor who had a studio in Blenheim Grove. He moved to Wales. He made the totem pole in the garden at The Sun and Doves. He also sold seaside rock with ‘I LOVE PECKHAM’ through the middle. He also appeared on page 3 of The Sun squeezed into a column alongside the boobs of the day with Mark looking like Del Boy ‘smoking’ a huge stick of Peckham rock.
@ Dagmar
Say that again.
But slower.
Had the all you can eat buffet at Noodels.
Very good value. No wonder it’s so busy in there.
Great to see someone doing a good trade– big improvement on the tumbelweed in Mozz Pomm..
Ah, thanks Mark. Apart from sitting on the benches I didn’t know much about the origins of I Love Peckham.
Amazing how much positive impact an artist can have on the economic and social make-up of an area.
Similarly amazing how an all you can eat buffet can reinvigorate a high street.
Camberwell Noodel Festival — as much as you can carry!
They’d come from all around.
CPZs
I’ve bought property here, I live here, I shop here and I pay full council tax here. So why shouldn’t I be allowed to park my car here, Reg? Should all residents have a right to vote on parking? Of course, although against my better judgement I sometimes feel it’s a shame that those residents who are making a positive contribution to their local area can be out-voted so easily by the enormous number of antisocial ones. I’m not particularly in favour of CPZs because it costs an extra £100 per annum which I can ill afford at the moment. And it’s a pity when people uproot trees and pave over their front gardens for parking. On my road, spaces are plentiful anyway. I doubt that anyone who doesn’t live in SE5 will regard it as a shopping destination when the CPZs are established, as they will be, almost by stealth. We just don’t have many nice shops because there aren’t many affluent people living here. And I don’t see anyone from Camberwell Grove walking back up with full shopping bags.
Noodel Festivel.
Noodel regeneration.
Dagmar I sense you are a man with a sensitive side no?
@Dagmar — although I’m pretty sure that SupportSociety is a wind-up merchant, please reign in your appreciation of the important work of the Camberwell Society to a personal opinion. They really are stuffy old grandees that sound (& presumably look) like Ian McKellan, from my last reading of that awful magazine they produce. Now THAT’S provocative!
@Mushtimushta
That IS possibly THE MOST provocative thing I’ve seen on this blog in many a moon: “that sound (& presumably look) like Ian McKellan” is an uncanny assessment if you haven’t met ‘them’. Quite a lot of unreconstructed Enid Blyton in there as well, or so I have been told. NOT wishing to gossip.
The curtains are twitching.
@Mushtimushta
Why talk about the Camberwell Society as though it’s some sort of exclusive club? Membership is open to anyone and I assume the executive are elected by the membership. If it is currently stuffy, then why not join and freshen it up a little.
Similarly, it seems a little pointless to start a local campaign group from scratch, when one already exists that has the recognition of the council.
It does seem an unfair assumption to make just because most members are older. Perhaps they were like you guys when they started out. I can almost picture the scene in 20 years time (for those who do remain here) where a younger generation will be mocking your views. By then they will be outmoded and blue-rinsey too. Just a thought
YOu won’t get the Camberwell Society tucking into the steamed talapia down Lip Smacking African cuisine.
They might not be the most urbane but they did a good job at making sure St George developed Mary Datchelor as posh.
Got to be good for Camberwell.
Has anyone seen the sculptures on Denmark Hill Village Green? It’s a wolf attacking some sheep. It’s ace.
A wishing tree has sprung up towards the bottom of Camberwell Grove. Spring seems a good time to take advantage of this new facility, which must be as efficacious as anything in these straitened days.
Opposite, the boards are being taken down to reveal St George’s handsome development. Wednesday’s Evening Standard property section had a fine spread selling the benefits of Camberwell and environs, soon to be trained and tubed to the rest of London.
Jenny Eclair’s Warholian face has replaced the Camberwell Beauty as brand logo. Let’s hope she is remunerated for this constant usage.
“I can almost picture the scene in 20 years time (for those who do remain here) where a younger generation will be mocking your views.” — That happens to me now, never mind 20 years from now.
@Alan Dale
“They might not be the most urbane…“
Actually, I think you are implying that they are too urbane.
urbane adj 1 with refined manners; suave; courteous. 2 sophisticated; civilized; elegant.
As it happens, the one member of the society I know is a retired professor of anthropology who did research in the countries now known as the Congo and Tanzania from the 1960s onwards. So she for one might well be up for some African cuisine.
“Similarly, it seems a little pointless to start a local campaign group from scratch, when one already exists that has the recognition of the council.”
The idea of this is not so much a campaign group but an umbrella group for all the little campaign groups that there are. Everyone has their own priorities– perfectly reasonably– but there must be some common ones that we all share.
The idea for this group is twofold:
Firstly, to get all these differing factions and interest groups together. Instead of trying to vie for the limited time and attention of officials for their own interests, why not find out if we have common goals and then shout louder together for the same thing, instead of being lots of small buzzings in someone’s ear.
Secondly, to get those who are not involved on the forum or this website, or have little or no idea that such organisations exist. For example younger people, immigrants and those with mental health issues.
These people may also be thinking that organisations like the Camberwell Society can do little for them. And on the face of it, I think they would be right. This is not to say that the society has not done some good work to try and preserve the architecture of Camberwell and improve the local environment but from the evidence of the magazine it hasn’t got that many people from the aforementioned groups…yet. As far as I am aware they are keen to do so and I believe that there is talk of helping in some way with the community garden that is being set up on the D’Enysford Estate behind Camberwell Church Street.
To this end, we would appreciate any help and comments you have on the idea of an umbrella group meeting. We have a few ideas already and I or Liliana will be posting something soon. In the meantime, what are the top 5 things you like about Camberwell (I know it’s already been done but a nice neat list would help) and what are the top 5 ways that both YOU and others could improve Camberwell? (Constructive criticism is better than just saying it’s rubbish, and that “someone” should do something about it).
news just in:
space formerly known as the national on camberwell road (or part of it or part right next door to it) is going to be… wait… yes, a church. this one (unlike all the others within the square mile) is all about fire and brimstone or fire and air or something. fiery.
The Camberwell Society is great. They have a lot of experience and expertise. They are not here today, gone tomorrow. They are here for what they say they are here for here.
Myatt’s Field has more planes than any other park in Camberwell. Me and the youngest Dagmar spent the whole day there. It was heaven. Then we came home.
Liliana, you are a secular angel. Until you know better, until you hear a voice a bit like Michael Jackson’s calling you to some better place, please stay with us in Camberwell.
@ Mark
.…“that sound (& presumably look) like Ian McKellan” is an uncanny assessment if you haven’t met ‘them’. Was it uncannily accurate then, Mark?
As to being unreconstructedly Enid Blytony. Mmmm, don’t really know how to respond to that, because I don’t really understand it.
I accept that my last posting was a bit incendiary & based on nothing factual. Perhaps a little unfair, on reflection, but alot of fun to write, nevertheless.
@ Lilliana
Top 5 things I like about Camberwell
– its promixity to most of central London, by road and buses
- its range of great pubs, including the Castle, Hermits and Sun and Doves
- the friendliness of its residents and shopkeepers
- Brunswick Park
- St Giles Surgery
Top 5 ways me and others could improve Camberwell
- support local businesses wherever we can
- have more community events in our parks
- recycle and freecycle, and don’t leave rubbish on the street
- help neighbours
- can’t think of anything else
@ dagmar: hahaha, yes, earlier today i was briefly thinking ‘a village far far away’, perhaps even in shrekland where they are all magical creatures and singalot
@sg that’s brilliant, thank you so much
Those wishing to support local business by going the extra mile (or, if you are a resident street-parker, the extra 50 metres will do) for local businesses, could do worse than highlight the following principles to local councillors and MPs:
Keep Trade Local
As the UK’s leading small business representative, the Federation of Small Businesses really knows what it’s talking about.
With big business and over-extended mortgagors enjoying multi-billion bailouts it remains puzzling to see some Camberwellers treating equitable infrastructural reform as a subsidy for small business, while attempting to position themselves as champions of local business in SE5.