On a night of violence
Written by Peter | Filed under Crime
I’ve had to turn the news off as the repeated images of violence were making me inestimably sad. As I write this, Camberwell has remained mostly unscathed, although the same can’t be said for Peckham, Brixton, Walworth Road, Old Kent Road, or East Dulwich. I can’t quite take in what’s happening.
Anyone who says with certainty that this is down to pure criminality is talking out of their arse. Likewise anyone who says this is due to disaffection from society, or poverty, or anger with the police, or racial hatred, or any of the multitude of other reasons I’ve heard tonight. Nobody knows for sure why this has happened. I’d imagine the real reason is a combination of any or all of the above, depending on which of the participants you ask.
One thing we can probably say with some certainty is that this doesn’t happen for no reason, and it doesn’t spring from nowhere. But we don’t have any context for it, just supposition and opinion.
There’s no excuse for some of the behaviour we’ve seen; smashing in or setting fire to small, locally owned businesses, and looting the houses of the people who flee out of fear. You can’t excuse that. You shouldn’t even try.
If things have become so bad for people that they feel that rioting is the only option open to them now, I can sympathise with that. But using violence to take something because you’ll personally gain from it is loathsome behaviour, and deserves punishment.
I don’t want to score cheap political points now (there’ll be enough of that in the next few days) but the lack of presence from our elected leaders has been notable. Where was Mayor Johnson? Prime Minister Cameron? We’re hosting the Olympic Games next year, shouldn’t they have spent some time to at least pay lip service to addressing the problem? And while they have the excuse that they were out of the country, where was Deputy Prime Minister Clegg in their absence?
I don’t know what’s going on. I’m bewildered and confused and sad, and not looking forward to all the finger-pointing, politics and punditry that’s destined to follow this.
One final note: over the next few weeks, please don’t buy anything that you suspect to be stolen. Don’t reward this. Help local shopkeepers instead.
Good post Peter. This post seems to be too short
Thanks Peter, really considered post given the emotion a situation like this generates.
I keep thinking about the “there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women” quote by Maggie T.
For me this is where the current problem has it’s nucleus. I think she had a point to some extent, in the sense she was trying to re-invigorate people and mobilise a post war Britain to be more pro-active and less reflective.
Having said that, I think the tone of her speech, her policies, and the context in which she voiced those policies, ware divisive, and it remains so. But the real problem for me is that the speech resonated so well, and that the policies that resulted from them broke communities apart and that few people recognise the consequences of those policies.
I’m really upset that ‘the revolution’ is televised, worse still, it does go better with coke, there are stolen ambulances and it involves white goods and destruction of property.
I am wholeheartedly upset about the nature of the situation we, as a society and not as individuals, find ourselves in.
I am devastated. And too scared to go to work on my own this morning, I would normally be leaving about now but apparently Peckham and Old Kent Road are still unsafe. I’m frightened for my little girls who are meant to be going to the childminder on Trafalgar Avenue in an hours time. How can this happen in England? How can there be SO MANY people joining in with this madness?
Hey Amanda. It’s all pretty Clear in Camberwell. The only place that seems damaged is the phone shop by Haart.
Illegitimi non carborundum to paraphrase/bastardise the Camberwell motto. don’t let the fear of these people stop you living your life.
I think there is a definite context for the violence and chaos we’ve seen: it’s called gansta culture. I see it on the streets of Camberwell and Peckham every day. Now the world sees it too.
Amanda’s fears are understandable, given the amount of coverage of horrors and, especially, rumours. But we need to keep on normally so far as possible. And beware of rumour: ridiculous messages around this afternoon about multiple fires in Camberwell, when nothing of the sort occurred. Shops are mostly battened down, but hopefully not for long. In WWII sites that were bombed were usually cleared of survivors and bodies and the rescue teams moved on after just three hours — then people got back to normal in the area. A ‘business as usual’ attitude needs to be restored, then we’d all be more confident.
Thank you for your comments, Peter — I empathise totally with how you’re feeling.
Opportunists and thugs have been allowed to bring havoc, fear and destruction to the streets of London because the police were simply unprepared for (or unwilling to deal with) the level of violent disruption, as well as being overwhelmed by the large numbers of rioters involved.
I can’t escape the nagging feeling, though, that there would have been a more proactive stance by the police had rioters attacked Chelsea, Kensington, the west end or suchlike.
Will the Conservatives suffer as a result of police failures? I certainly hope so!
Spent a lot of today on Twitter trying to sort out the real news from the unsubstantiated rumour. The ratio was about 99% in favour of rumour.
There was all kinds of stuff being said; through the whole day I heard that these buildings were on fire:
Morrisons
Subway
Peacocks
McDonalds
Natwest
The pawn shop
I read that King’s had been evacuated, that an 800-strong mob was descending on us from Clapham, that the Green/Burgess Park was thronging with gangs meeting up to cause chaos, even that Camberwell was ‘finished’.
It was, of course, all bullshit. As far as I can tell, there definitely was a break-in at the pawn shop, but there were certainly no fires or mobs.
What exacerbated the situation was the mainstream media reporting the rumour; the cycle went like this: person on Twitter reports third-hand rumour “OMG my cousin says his girlfriend’s hairdresser says there’s riots in Camberwell!” -> journalist at The Guardian/The Telegraph says “I’m hearing unconfirmed reports of rioting in Camberwell” -> person on Twitter reports “OMG I just read on The Guardian that there’s riots in Camberwell!”
I dropped into my local for a drink after work and they’d all heard the rumours and taken them at face value. It was an interesting study in watching rumour spread, but left many people scared and nervous.
That said — only Twitter got the details of what was happening in the south east entirely correct. It was not really reported on the news and having checked this morning — it was astonishingly pretty much 100% correct.
The rumours about Camberwell did set me on edge though as I have a loved one who lives there.
we need our local communities to defend our streets and homes if our police “service” cannot do this. We need a call for the community to come onto the streets to stop this destruction.
As for calling on the community to help out, take a look at the Crisis Commons website which seems excellent to me — sensible, restrained and well organised. Also see what the people of East Dulwich are doing or suggesting re Lordship Lane by looking at the E D Forum pages.
Nice post Peter, I agree with @Shaun Richards about it being the ‘Gangsta’ culture, sure there are other issues causing it too, but mindless thugs will be mindless thugs regardless.
I’m not sure what the best ‘response’ is (I loved the Millwall fans approach to Eltham — singing ‘Noone loots us…’) but we should all show some solidarity with local business and return to ‘normality’. Keep calm, carry on!
We’re supposed to be meeting friends at Frank’s Campari Bar tonight — is Peckham Rye open ? I know the number 12 bus is being re-routed .…
@St. Giles. Is this a message from a few days ago? Nothing has been closed or re routed since Monday.
@monkeycat — thanks for that — get off before peckham rye so no idea what the situation is
Really interesting first hand blog of the looting on Walworth Road on Monday evening. I haven’t seen this reported in the mainstream media at all
http://motowns.blogspot.com/
Camberwell Lad — well found. Best thing I’ve seen about the whole affair.
Just a thought, and I know I may get lynched for this but…
Does anyone know, out of all the shops in London, or even in the worst affected areas, how many shops did not get attacked by rioters and looters compared to those that did get damaged?
How many people were not affected or harmed by the rioters?
As a percentage of population, how many people were rioting and looting?
Whilst the news is all about what people DID do, I would be interested to hear what people DIDN’T do.
As I say, just a thought.
Following last weeks riots… Garudio Studiage invite you to cut and collage your own fantasy shop for Rye Lane.
Guest artists include Tatty Devine, Coralie Bickford-Smith, Andrew Rae and Hannah Waldron.
All sales and donations help fund Peckham Space art workshops for local young people.
2nd – 27th august 2011
it’s free!
Monkeycat, so your saying it’s OK to reek havoc if only a small amount of people do it if the rest of the law abiding community being a larger part of us don’t?
What a bloody inane statement!!!!!
No, not at all. You miss the point. I was more thinking in relation to a cancelled visit by friend because his wife was so worried about the dangers of coming to London. How dangerous was London during the week?
Also it seems that there is a fear of violence and crime that is does not correlate with the actual risk of something happening to you.
Many shops may not have been affected, much of Camberwell was unaffected apart from the phone shop and two cash for gold shops, however the fear that was brought onto people certainly had an inpact. I know Caravaggio had all their bookings cancelled on Tuesday and we barely managed to scrape over the £100 mark in takings that day. Part of me thinks I would have been better off had some looting taken place and a nice insurance payout come off the back of it…
Thankfully we seem to be going back to normality, hopefully the weekend doesn’t bring any trouble. Shame the council have had to postpone their festival.
POSTCARD FROM CORNWALL Hello, postcodes! We are having a nice time here. Hope you are well. Any news?
No newspapers or telly down here, just the cry of seabirds! One little bird has told us that the ELEPHANT TO THE NUN festival has been postponed till 17/18 September weekend. We are very pleased because we can now go. So all you “Camberwell/Peckham Has Got Talent” lot — get in touch with
Oxjam.camberwell2011@gmail.com
to book your unplugged act on the Oxjam acoustic no-mike stage in Lucas Gardens. Come along, let’s join in with the “Big Society”! Perhaps David Cameron will visit us on the day, eh?
We would certainly cut short our holiday if we knew he or other effete Etonians were visiting there for any reason! “Gawd bless yer, yer Eton-straight-thru-to-Oxford-then-Carlton-TV-PR-wonk, sir!”
Talking of which, a funny old wise woman down here covered in tattoos, aged about 19, who lives on a surfboard, said something strange. She said Boris Johnson has been upended and turned into something useful.
A broom, she says!
You know what these witches are like, they live in their own world.
Hi Dagmar. How’s the surf?
Great blog from Motown. I feel much better informed having read it.
The riots were bloody awful. Funny that Clegg is unable to enjoy predicting them though. If he’d been in opposition now he’d be loving it like Vince Cable after the financial crisis.
As it is he’s left saying that he meant different riots. Not like that. More students and swampy types. Probably in May…
With regard to the riots I fear that once again Camberwell will be overlooked and miss out — regeneration/rebuilding money will be channelled to Walworth, Peckham and Brixton not peaceful Camberwell.
Not sure where I should start with commenting on the riots, really. I’m shocked by the reports of the sheer numbers of young people out in Peckham on Monday, participating in it (500, I heard). I’m shocked by the hysterical reaction in the press (evict council tenants have any association with offences over last weekend). And equally shocked by the response of the traditional left (I was in Peckham today and the university lecturer wing of the SWP were out asking that I blame the bosses, not the “community” for what has happened). I only wish I knew which way to turn, but I don’t.
@Mushtimushta The SWP no more represent the left than the BNP do the right.
Go to poundland on Rye Lane.
The post-it note collage is moving.
I feel extremely privleged to live here.
It’s like when Ben Kenobi let Darth Vader whoop him. You can strike me down… and all that.
The love wall, I have been told, will be made into a permanent exhibition at Peckham Library.
While London was almost burning last week, Jay Rayner did the Crooked Well — and well they did — in the Guardian. And in ES The Sun and Doves got best pub in London for its quiz from an interview with Simon Bird.
Off to see the Wall of Love.
@mumu/all
Not necessarily…if some lateral thinking is applied
The riots were extremely dissapointing but I have to say that I wasn’t surprised at all in any way shape or form. It’s been brewing for quite some time.
One of the main reasons for my belief in the Cinema/Camberwell Village Hall campaign at the ex-Gala Bingo was precisely to engage the whole community — particularly the dissaffected youth — in the reltively neutral central location of Camberwell for the entire borough.
This is one of the most unequal countries in Europe regarding the gap between the rich and poor. The Gini co-efficient measures income distribution — the higher the percentage the more unequal the society.
Only Portugal surpasses the U.K in this respect — closely followed by Italy,Greece and Spain. 30% of all the income in the U.K goes to the top 5% of earners. The only other nation in the western world which surpasses this is the U.S.A where 33% of total income goes to the top 5%.
Greece and Portugal’s current fiscal problems are well documented and Italy and Spain are not far behind.
In all these nations there is an extremely biased media with a distinct agenda through press,radio and TV which either totally ignores or demonises the social underclass and poor.
How many times in this nation have we heard over the past 20 years of unpleasant phrases like “Chav Scum” or “Benefit Scroungers” and every social ill seems to be blamed on this section of society — but nobody EVER questions the aggressive economic system which causes all these negative social side-effects. As previously mentioned, the top 5% of earners cream off 30% of the nations entire earnings and this figure is rising all the time — but every other reason is trotted out to justify this ignorant, selfish and totally insane system other than the truth.
There are many other historical reasons which also play a factor — break down of social cohesion, family unit and the appalling social housing based on the brutalist architecture of totatalarian regimes — but the main one being that the U.K and the E.U have over the past 20 years — fully embraced the post WW2 U.S economic model — (which of course was based on the U.K & European Empirical economic model before the social justice movement) and if you embrace that model then you have to accept the same negative social side-effects — that all it really comes down to.
I don’t want to live in an aggressive, unregulated, free market jungle nor do I want to exist in a claustrophobic totatalarian zoo — but it seems to me that we are taking the very worse excesses of the latter to prop up the very worst excesses of the former — without question and that is a very dark place to be in indeed…
There IS a third way (if we really want it)
I will recommend some books — these are not the bottom line or gospel…but offer some interesting ideas and theories to help get a grasp on the situation…
The Spirit Level
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resource/the-spirit-level
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11518509
Prosperity Without Growth
http://www.earthscan.co.uk/ProsperityWithoutGrowth/tabid/102098/Default.aspx
The State We’re In
http://www.amazon.co.uk/State-Were-Revised-Britain-Overcome/dp/0099366819
Thank you all
I drink my tea
Whew! Spot on eusebiovic and that’s a lot of reading — but well worth the effort for anyone not familiar with them. Further to your list I’d recommend anyone to read ANY of Herbert Girardet’s books: http://www.underthesky.org.uk/who_hg.html A man well ahead of his time.
@ J Mark Dodds
E.F Schumacher’s “Small is Beautiful” was also well ahead of it’s time — and is an optimistic read too.
http://www.ecobooks.com/books/smbeaut.htm
By the way. Went down, probably UP actually, to the river yesterday for a spontaneous walk along the southbank. Whatever happened to ‘being English’? Where did all the stuffy unimaginative boringness and ‘close everything at dusk’ mentality go? It was great along there — wonderful ambiance, lots to look at, busy, lots of people, happy and having fun — no tension, all very civilised and very cafe society.
I had a great time. An inquiry should be held.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdodds/6045006781/in/photostream/lightbox/
That should be ambience, not ambiance. Ambient music, right, not ambulance music. Shouldn’t this blog take a deep breath, step away from its old yarns and just change? Let’s see.
Hello, Camberwell, long time no see.
Mark’s right it is ‘ambiance’ and John is a jötunn.
Yes Nick. Ambiance.
And the Norse word for Ostrich is “Struts”
Anyone know the cheapest way of getting a taxi to Luton, early in the morning? i.e. arriving there by 6am? Cheapest so far is Camberwell Cabs at £60.
Trains run all through the night; there’s a 4.50 from King’s X will get you there for 6am.
Coach services are cheap, guys. easyBus goes from Victoria every 20 mins round the clock, book online, takes 1 hour 20. Swift, quiet, nice ambience.
Let it rain. Rain brings change.
How, I wonder, did those lovely Norse people know about ostriches strutting their strut stuff?
An APPEAL
Donate £20 for materials so that Peckham Space can run some arts clubs for kids… do it now or it will be too late
Look here: http://wedidthis.org.uk/projects/arts-clubs
Thanks for the info on travel.
Bus could be easier.
Get yourself to Victoria and sail away. Book online first — could cost you £4 return.
Straightforward.
@ J Mark Dodds
I was reminded of that fine word whilst watching most of our prominent politicians strut around, go through the motions and bury their head in the sand with banal, spirit-crushing knee-jerk predictability that was so depressingly inevitable.
Good call on the Peckham Space project…I’m more than happy to donate £20 to such a valid cause.
Peckham Space got their £2000. AMAZING!
Only two days ago they were £980 short of their goal — that’s what they needed for art materials or else none of the money pledged could have been, ahem, drawn upon…
Anyway, in the last two days, there must have been a giving rush.
Thanks eusobiovic!
@Eusebiovic/All,
I accept the arguments on how unequal the society we all inhabit is and would like to see the rich paying their share of the bill to rescue our economy (which would be a very big share). I’ve never subscribed to the “we’re all in this together” austerity cry, because I know we’re not.
I am, however, a little tired of St Camila of Batmanghelidjh and her ilk in the charity sector. Go and stand outside Wedge House on Blackfriars Rd for a couple of hours and watch “those of us who work at street level” arriving & departing in chauffeur-driven cars and taxis. You think I’m joking or that I have a personal axe to grind? I’m not and I don’t, but it does make me feel that personal appearances on the riot special edition of Question Time or articles for The Independent are probably little more than a funding bid. I actually support the work that Kids Company do, but it has started to look more any more like a business to me in recent months. Notice how carefully Camila chooses her words so that they do not offend the dominant political class (whichever brand that is). And, regrettably, I don’t reserve this feeling for Kids Company alone — I see it in Shelter, Thamesreach, Wateraid — the list goes on.….
Funkyhermitmonkeycave looks almost ready to open this morning.
The Funky Hermit.
That’s should be what it’s called.
@Mushtimushta, My own feeling is that if there is any weakness in Camila’s set up it is that people on the outside don’t get to know the scope of what Kids Company is up to.
Camila’s organisation is extraordinary and its spread is huge. She works day and night and has two shifts of PA’s and office support to keep up with her schedule.
They deal with many thousands of young people on a continuing, rolling and expanding basis that is truly impressive. They coordinate the activities and efforts of thousands of volunteers, interns and work placements across a wide geographic area, placing them with schools and work programmes all over the show. They run mentoring programmes, one to one counselling, dozens of workshops and loads of other stuff.
It demands a lot of administration which is what part of Wedge House is about… A lot of the building is actively used as counselling and therapy rooms.
Why not ask if you can visit and and get shown around? You might be surprised.
New brooms on old brooms. Don’t stand in the doorway, don’t block up the hall — for the times, they are a-changin’.
Interesting article in Tuesday’s paper looking at the state of schooling and the threat to community stability from the ‘free’ schools — see the article http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/aug/16/crisis-britains-education-system which takes an England wide view but references all our old favourites: Batmanghelidjh, Birbalsingh and Lillian Bayliss
@Mark — your point is a fair one. But might I also add that I’ve lived on a council estate in Camberwell for more years than I’m prepared to admit on this blog, am active in the Tenants’ Association and I’ve not seen Kids Company at all. However, I will think about the Wedge House idea.
@Sim — the Melissa Benn article is very thought-provoking — I hadn’t seen this, so cheers.
Very good link, Sim. I knew change would come, here. Well done.
Yes, a good article. I agree with much of it. Smaller class sizes, particularly, seems like a good idea. It’s a lot to ask of schools, thou — to, in effect, be partially responsible for raising kids. Talk about mission creep.
It is such a shame the youth services and youth workers are not supported much better. It seems like supporting kids, teenagers, and families outside of the school system would be more effective.
A school can’t change the economic plight of a neighbourhood and shouldn’t be tasked with that.
Dear you lovely people: SE5 Forum’s getting hip. ‘LIKE’ the Facebook page and if you have anything happening in your life that’s worth everyone else knowing about — then do use the page as a publication for your own ends.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/SE5-Forum/193038544077350?ref=ts
*Bump*
Don’t really have much to say.
I listened to this podcast from Peckham about the riots. The Hyper-local Internet, you know?
http://soundcloud.com/herebeangels
Main take-away is that there’s incredible community spirit around here (and most other places too, I would expect). I’m not really buying this broken society argument. I do, thou, think a lot of people are marginalised from the mainstream society portrayed in the media, business, and politics.
@Gabe
I’m also (a lot) uncomfortable with the whole “broken society” argument, because it is always presented as part of a wider agenda, from both Left & Right. However, most of the major cities have seen multiple changes in the concept people have of “community” over the last century. There are lots of walls, some impenetrable, micro-communities that cross geographic divides and are defined along class, cultural, skin-colour, religious, gender or sexuality lines. All-in-all, I think we’re poorer for it. But then again, there are advantages to not knowing who lives next-door, sometimes.
When you have a little spare time, look at these documentary clips from 40 years ago — especially the second one, about Skinheads.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/08/the_terrifying_gangs_of_englan.html
These kids give the same reasons for being involved in fights and violence as they do today.
“People notice you — is that the idea?”
“Basically, yeah.”
Worth watching all the way through. The wisdom and insight from this kid is incredible, and it’s both sad and comforting to know that we haven’t changed at all.
Returning to schools I see that Charles Edward Brooke near to Myatts Fields Park is proposing to become co-educational and rename itself as St Gabriels — http://www.charlesedwardbrooke.lambeth.sch.uk/StatutoryNotice.htm — this would certainly open up the choices for prarents in the area
Tried to see Peter’s link — my broadband, at the moment, just cannot cope — two different connections. This has been getting worse over, I suppose, the past three months, slowing down, halting or dropping off altogether. Anecdotally I hear from customers around the King’s area that poor connection seems to be becoming a problem. My service providers — Orange and Firenet — both report there being no problem with service so it looks like its line gain that’s failing which is a BT issue — and they say there’s no problems.
It feels like a re run of two previous periods in the last five years where internet access was failing until equipment upgrades were done at the exchange.
Serious request — it seems like there’s not enough bandwidth. Is anyone else in SE5 having similar problems with their broadband service?
Mark, the local telephone exchanges don’t map onto the postcode areas. In fact, I don’t think there is a Camberwell exchange, with Camberwell being divided between Brixton (Coldharbour Lane and King’s College hospital area) and Walworth (most of the rest of Camberwell).
Have a look here:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search
@Peter — those films are a great find — thanks for posting the link. My (perhaps provocative) take on both films is that it’s a bit cruel to point a camera at a teenager and say “OK — justify yourself”. Because the only real response would be “I’m young, the world revolves around me, but my parents won’t acknowledge that and I can’t have what I want when I want it.….oh yeah, and I’ve got all these hormones pumping around my body and I’m bored”. Instead, Hell’s Angels in Dudley brand themselves “individualists” whilst simultaneously wearing a uniform. Thank God they didn’t point a camera at me when I was 15!
Hmmm James, thank you. I knew the exchange is in Brixton but only by rumour. The further one is from an exchange the more likely for signal fall off — and the more people between you and the exchange, taking bandwidth with their own usage the worse off you are.
So as broadband usage becomes more common, more and more people start using up bandwidth along the route — and customers toward the end of the line begin to get intermittent connection as there’s no bandwidth left to deliver streaming video and so on.
My feeling, brought on through years of experiencing this here, is that Camberwell is at the end of most lines for most things, including broadband access, school catchments and almost anything else you can think of.
There’s nothing WRONG with being digitally deprived, I just assumed, once upon a time, that this sort of experience is the reserve of rural populations. Not when you’re in the inner city.
More rain.
AND…
More Rain.
@J Mark Dodds
Over the last few months it has rained constantly on my internet connection…
Plusnet are pretty good and I like them but as you say it’s BT and their terminally slow lines — around Ruskin Park they still are still connected to Telegraph Poles!
Time for Virgin Broadband methinks…
@eus — my boys were using the internet from 8am this morning and at 9.20am ploofff — zilch nothing neither from firenet nor orange. I hoped to buy a train ticket and ended up doing it on my phone. Connection’s come back in the last hour or so but has been intermittent..