The evening economy

I don’t have anything worthwhile to talk about; the old New Year ennui is in effect and I’m not going out much. I pretty much live vicariously through your comments. Anyway, here are some nice pictures of Camberwell nightlife to tide you over for a bit — you can see the full set on Flickr.

A woman talks on the telephone while a bus passes behind her

An elderly man with white hair

African men in a barber's shop

Author: Peter

Long-time resident of Camberwell, author of this blog since July 2004.

125 thoughts on “The evening economy”

  1. Peter, all I can say is that the lefties could be more intelligent than me, but I know one thing for sure, I am more intelligent than Canadians.

  2. Re: Top Totty in the stranger’s bar — £2.70 a pint! £2.70! I suppose I shouldn’t complain as is less expenses for us taxpayers to bear.

  3. St Giles,

    I’m afraid to say you are already paying for this cheap beer. The House of Commons bars and eateries are subsidized by you, the tax payer.…and they then put it on expenses, still ripping you off, a shower of s*** the lot of ‘um.

  4. We should treasure Chunters for his place in the rainbow of visions that lands itself, thud, on Camberwell. “Chunter” is a word many people from the Midlands and North have long and gainfully employed.

    Left-wingers may be more intelligent than stick-in-the-muds, but sometimes their earnestness, correctness and easy incontrovertibility comes over as being a bit silly. There is more to life than being right, as Mr Miliband has been realising for quite a while, if he may.

  5. Just to really wee on your happy Friday parade, the new building by the bus garage on Camberwell New Road is going to be.…..drumroll.…a Tesco.…hurrah. Just what I always wanted.

  6. That is a fascinating little backstreet flag-of-St-George boozer, on the wrong street. It will be turned into flats no doubt. The area is dingy but on the other hand, there are all kinds of people living and working in that heavily-populated area.

  7. @NickW thanks for that find — it is, as Dagmar points out, a marginal position. This sale was inevitable. In a year or so from now I might be in the position to be able to have considered it.

  8. and a bit more everywhere news 😛 online petition to save the camberwell green orchard as a public green space is now live
    petition is for two simple things:
    — protect the green space
    — ask the council to genuinely consult on where a suitable alternative location for the library could be, which was not done (the ‘consultation’ was pretty much exclusively about how often people used the library, what they did once they went in etc) — background info about it is on our website

  9. Lili,

    Where is Camberwell orchard? I haven’t ever picked an apple in this town.

    I’d be pleased to do so however.

    The petition is in two parts and I’d like to see the new library situated at the front of the Magistrates Court so given that I couldn’t sign it.

    Should it be “Keep the green green” and “Don’t move the library”. Or am losing the plot?

  10. chunters, the camberwell green orchard is (if you’re coming from denmark hill end), through the green itself, cross the road towards magistrates court, on your right hand side. the gate is fully locked now, has been for some time, making it impossible for anyone to enjoy it (unless you can climb over fences). only a few years back, there were really positive plans to open it up, get the older people involved in creating a sensory garden, additional children play area etc. all of that is under threat now. the idea that the only possible place for a library is bang in the middle of a well-used public space (the area in front of the magistrates court) was only ever presented, no alternatives were ever publicly discussed let alone seriously considered. and there are at least a few. the area in front of the magistrates court also has a number of established mature trees which no sapling can ever effectively replace. hope that’s a bit clearer? ie it’s ‘keep the green green’ and ‘there is an alternative’?

  11. Chunters, I’ve finally worked out why all of your comments get held in moderation: your email address contains a word which is on the spam filter blacklist. If you have another email address you could try using that instead.

  12. What, I Chunt dot com? I am a complete Chunt. (OK, OK, Dagmar ‚we get it.) At least he is walking to the library site tomorrow to see what the score is.

    The space in front of the Magistrates Court at the moment has all the atmosphere of Tiananmen Square at night packed with muggers.

    It is dead.

    A people’s garden would get trashed by the oppressed, forget it.

    Peckham Library is always packed with quiet people studying. Camberwell should have something similar. Libraries are not for weekends, they are for life.

  13. The chap in Southwark BC who helped us plant the orchard in Warwick Gardens is Lewis White. Might be worth someone associated with the orchard contacting him. We got our funding from the Cleaner Greener Safer fund, although I think the deadline for this year’s bids has now closed. Lottery might be an alternative: HLF if it’s an old orchard.

    We had a few thefts at the beginning, but it has remained intact since.

  14. @dagmar, sorry to hear you feel unsafe and uncomfortable with that particular open space. my own experiences are very different.
    the one thing that really confuses is me the idea that you ‘improve’ an open public space by ‘extinguishing’ it, ie by it ceasing to exist as an open public space?
    nobody’s arguing against libraries, not for one second. the argument is not ‘libraries or trees’ or ‘libraries or open public space’. however, the location or feasible alternatives have never been publicly discussed

  15. I think it would be a good place for the library. It would help spread Camberwell’s daily life across the Green and act as a counter-balance to the main roads, which dominate.

    I like trees (a lot) but using that space for the library could help make it a more welcoming and more sociable public space.

  16. I think the point Lily is trying to make, and I agree with her, is that the “consultation” that was used as the justification for this move asked about 20 questions on what you like about libraries, how often you use the library and what you would like to see IN a library. There was not a single direct question that asked your opinion on where to put a library or what it should look like etc. That is not a consultation that takes into account local people’s wishes and ideas.

    “Do you like libraries?”
    “Yes, that’s a great idea.”
    “Excellent, in our survey 100% of people stated they are happy with our plans. Lets build it by the magistrates court”.


    I have heard that one of the reasons for this is that they were a little concerned that lots of people would suggest the old bingo hall as a suitable place for the library. And we can’t have that can we?!

  17. I agree. I think it would be an asset to Camberwell and make that end of the Green more attractive and better used.

  18. I have walked and looked today to see the orchard. I saw a fair few bulbs coming up, a blue tit, two black birds, a Mr and Mrs and a sparrow. I think it may be later in the year to revisit when the plants are in bloom.

    They surely wouldn’t have to dig this up to fit in the new library?

    Making this part of Camberwell more visited by people, apart someone who got nicked and are just going to the court house would be a good thing.

  19. The excellent Mr Chunters certainly “puts his feet where his mouth is” by making a perambulation thus, bearing down manfully on the source of the discussion, viz, the place in question. Camberwell should salute such a man who dares nose out the truth with that eminently infallible instrument of inquiry, the nose.

    Miss Lili, one is generally wary of villainy around the Court area because one is aware of the grim cloud of notoriety that emanates from the pursuit of felony. Why, the square cowers in the shadow of the stark mansion where justice is dealt or otherwise by m’learned friends and that bespectacled ancient wise owl known by the denizens of south London as “the beak”.

    On which subject, pray Mr Chunters, may the less cognisant, indeed, less “cockney” citizens of the celebrated village of Camberwell be apprised of the polite name of “a Mr and Mrs”?

    Is anyone else enjoying this notable day, the 200th anniversary of Mr Dickens’ arrival in this comic and tragic but altogether fascinating land?

  20. Ate at Mishkins at 25 Catherine Street WC2B 5JS — a stone’s throw from my earliest restaurant work in London at Joe Allen and Orso, oh twenty six years ago.

    SIMPLY BRILLIANT bill for two including service — £38 Overall pretty close to perfect. Worthy of much admiration.

    Ate at Green and Blue last night East Dullwich. Food OK, service, OK, ambience OK. Bill for four people, including service: £143 Overall lifeless and DULL. And Expensive.

    West End? East Dullwich?

    Mishkin wins every time. It’s the sort of catering that would MAKE Camberwell, alongside Angels & Gypsies, Wuli Wuli, Mangal and Silk Road etc when they are on form.

    Actually it’s the sort of catering we were considering for Paul’s Continental — the Olive Shop. But the owner didn’t want to let it when we asked.

  21. + 1 for butcher.

    I stopped being a vegetarian a couple of years ago so missed the wonder that was Kennedy’s …

    Trying to source Ox Cheeks in South London is a nightmare.

  22. Interesting.
    I received a missive from the venerable South-Wark council upon my return from work.

    It appears they are demolishing those rancid prefabs next door to St Giles hospital (next to Peacock House on St Giles Road). Specifically the ‘Sheldon’ buildings (geek alerts aside).

    Does this mean that *finally* planning permission has been approved to update these fabulous buildings for modern use (they were for chiropractry, weirdly; is that available on the NHS? If so, why doesn’t Ben Goldacre know about it?).

    I haven’t seen any planning permission applications — has anyone got an inkling of this wonderful building’s prognosis?

  23. @St Giles.

    I knew it! Bastards.

    One man’s rancid is another mans beauty.

    In the 60’s they wanted to knock down the ugly monstrosity that was St. Pancras Station.

    Same with buildings such as the St. Giles Hospital.

    Pre-fab? What are you talking about?

    There is nothing prefab about that building. A bit of TLC is all it needs. In 40 years time people will wonder at the barbarism of knocking down that building. Similar to the incredulity of knocking down the old Euston station (it made Grand Central Station in NYC look like a cattle shep). Having said that, I love the new Euston station now (I didn’t a few years ago).

  24. Those buildings are so memorable that it’s impossible to remember them.

    Have no fear — if Southwark has anything at all — whatsoever — to do with the outcome of that St Giles site it will be a missed opportunity and a bad decision for everyone involved except the contractors / developers who get to do the work.

    They sold the Town Hall to the art college.

    Here’s a scintillating report on the St Giles’ site for your interest and perusal:

  25. going back to the orchard, yes, thank you, monkeycat, that’s precisely what i was trying to say. pleased to say online petition gathering momentum as many people value the precious few open public and green spaces we have. please spread the word x

  26. @monkeycat — I’m not talking about the main building I’m talking about the 60s prefab monstrosities that are next to it in what was once probably a carpark.

    The main building is an Arts and Crafts beauty.

  27. I love the Arts and Crafts bit too, but the part that you call a pre-fab, really is not a pre-fab, but a rather nice, if plain 60’s building. Nothing prefab about it. I love the big windows and proportions.

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