It was remiss of me not to mention Bonkersfest! last week; I had it in my mind, but it slipped away. I wasn’t able to attend as I was on a marathon bike ride around London, but when I passed in the late afternoon the Escola de Samba was in full flow and it looked like a great time was being had. Anyone care to provide a report?
Camberwell gets a fairer hearing in the FT’s review of the Church Street Hotel, helped by the fact that the author seems to have friends in the area who can give him some background. It would be foolish to pretend we don’t have crime and drug problems here, but that’s not all we have; if it were just guns and drugs and unrelenting misery, I very much doubt that most of you dear readers would be living here. I certainly wouldn’t.
Having said that… there’s been another incident down on Camberwell Road. As I passed this morning I saw the Nag’s Head and the neighbouring Costcutter sealed off with police tape, and plenty of coppers around it. Seemed to be centred around the Nag’s Head. That little area down there’s had its troubles recently.
Why has post no. 36 reappeared as 49 posted by Maigret the Troll? My guess is that Maigret has just got back from the G8 summit and is still anarchisting after a good time on the bus.
Actually Maigret the troll has a point Dagmar. zero tolerance (of course there would be difficulties of enforcement) on littering, spitting, dropping chewing gum and all the other little nuisances people commit would change the area greatly.
I did a walk around Camberwell Green, along the borough boundary past S&D down Denmark Road and back to the green with five senior council officers and A fellow SE5 Forum committee member last Thursday — we were showing them OUR Camberwell and hearing about THEIR Camberwell. As we walked up Church Street I was pointing out the (amazing amount of) chewing gum plastered everywhere along the pavements.
One of them said ‘there’s a statistic that Southwark has five pieces of chewing gum per every single square metre across the borough’.
As I was looking down on the dizzying quantities of gum stuck absolutely everywhere I thought ‘cor blimey mate your missing something, that means the rest of the borough must be chewing gum free because there’s so much of it here you can hardly see the slabs any more’.
Mark,
could you tell us more about your circumnavigation of the area? I’d be fascinated to hear what the council-men thought. Was it an eye opener?
There was some kind of event in Burgess Park over the weekend, no idea what it was. But as I walked through the park to get to my bus stop this morning I was absolutely APPALLED at the state of it; it looks as though absolutely everyone who went there took a picnic and just left all the rubbish — it’s disgusting. There have been events there before and nowhere near as much mess left afterwards. Everyone involved should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
It was a Nigerian Carnival where according to the BBC — http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6738365.stm — far more people turned up on Saturday than they anticipated and so they had to cancel the second day on Sunday. I guess they did not arrange enough litter bins/ cleaners and so the park was left in a bad state
Well, I hope it all gets cleared up ASAP, it honestly looked like the local tip this morning, usually it’s such a pleasant walk through the park and this morning it was horrifying. There were so many plastic bags and things that the wildlife could get caught up in and injured.
And the rubbish had drifted into Chumleigh Gardens and was strewn all over the plants. 🙁
I wish they wouldn’t hire out the park if it’s going to be left in that kind of state.
Dagmar
I like that about the modern Pooters…I guess that E Dulwich Lupin is still in nappies, being pushed around by his blond yummy mummy in his pavement Chelsea Tractor !
The essential difference has got to be that the Pooters were aspirants to the middle Middle classes- the E D varients are slumming down from their Upper Middle Class, minor public school Claphamish origins.
The British upper class used to be distinguished
by their lack of conspicuous consumption — ie : there’s nothing more vulgar than to buy new — real class inherits — also have nothing to prove to lower class scuzzy oiks etc.
The ED pooters want to spend themselves into a facimile of a Chelsea that they can no longer afford ( as the new Russians and Arabs now have the serious money)
Good news here though — middle class families
are put off from buying my neighbours house — a fantastic fully restored 3 story house in Benhill Rd- because of the lack of suitable schools in the area????
read — We won’t move to the area because our kids would have to go to a culturally diverse school that reflects the ethnic makeup of the community that we seek to live in.
Why live in London at all ? go to some racially pure( white with not too many Poles, Jews etc. ) part of the UK if you don’t like it!
Buster the plumber is on the Robert Elms show on BBC London Radio as I type this…
Amanda, I live next to an African chruch. They like to picnic after each service. Very rarely they mindlessly use my bin as a waste recepticle. Often they just leave their polysyrene plates and plastic bags on the pavement. If I’m really lucky they just hoy it over the fence into my garden. They also double park.
I find them such generous-spirited, christian people.
Careful of doing a Midge Ure Oliver — Africa is a big place.
‘There won’t be snow in Africa this Christmas time’- except perhaps in the High Atlas mountains, or in Lesotho, or any one of a number of places for that matter.
My old boss is from Pietermaritzburg and I’ve never known him to drop litter or even go to church for that matter.
Anti-African sentiment aside we need zero tolerance policing and on the spot fines to stop the littering.
Yes I think we have to tread very carefully here — stick to objective facts and dont make sweeping statements to make sure your argument is accepted by those in authority in a position to act to make the situation better. It is not because they are African that they drop litter it is because they are acting in an anti-social way; I’m sure its only a minority of the congregation.
I would approach the church leader/ administrator and raise your concerns. They ought to recognise the actual problems caused and the PR damage that they do the church. It may be worth also writing to your councillor asking him/her to take it up with the licensing/ public health department of the council.
I’m not getting embroiled in a race row, I don’t give a toss WHO they are, but WHAT THEY DID is disgusting, dirty and anti-social, shows a complete disregard for other people and makes my blood boil. If it’s not all cleared up when I get off the bus this evening I will be making some angry phone calls tomorrow -
Does anyone have any idea who I could call? Who’s responsible for hiring out the park?
Contact your local Borough Councillor — http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourCouncil/CouncillorsHome/ to find him/her — they are responsible to you as a voter for the way the Council is run
Lucas and I popped into the Portuguese event held in Kennington Park this weekend. It was a lot of fun, loads of food to sample and families out together all dancing to the live music. It seemed to be excellently run, they had their own security on all the gates checking everyone coming in and were very polite too.
Seemed like an example of a good event to us.
I wasn’t generalising when I reffered to it as an African church. I did so because I can’t tell if it’s congregation is mainly Nigerierian, Ghanian et al, I do however know that they are African.
Some of you lot seriously need to stop assuming that racism is inherent. Had I said “European church” would you have accused me of latent racism for not differentiating between Belgian and Dutch protestants?
Alan: “Anti-African sentiment aside” Could you point me in the direction of the anti-African sentiment. Or have you made it up on the basis of half-reading something?
Mumu: “It is not because they are African that they drop litter it is because they are acting in an anti-social way; I’m sure its only a minority of the congregation.” Where in my post do I suggest that Africans are predisposed to litter-dropping? Where do I suggest that the congregants are representative of a wider culture?
I’m waiting for someone to have a go at Mrs Lucas. How dare she suggest that all Portuguese people are family-oriented, well-organised, well-mannered bon viveurs. I have Portuguese friends who are total deviants and would take this slur very much to heart.
Sorry if you took what you said in the wrong way — I was merely highlighting the fact that it is bad behaviour we should be focusing on not the ethnicity/ nationality of the perpetrators. I was not suggesting anything about you — just to stick to the facts so that a stronger case is made.
On another note is everyone gearing up for the Camberwell Arts Festival (http://www.camberwellarts.org.uk)? I was intrigued by the performance piece Leftovers on 17 June where you get breakfast as well as art
Oliver @ 53. I’ll try to remember to put a bit more up about the walk around. It was very interesting — not least because I began to notice stuff about Camberwell that’s never really sunk in before — like the truly shocking state of the pavements along Church Street. Usually I’m in too much of a hurry to notice.
I sensed a bit of dismissiveness in their colective tone but they were at least listening.
I tried to post a pdf of the really neat 2007 Camberwell Arts Festival brochure on the SE5 Forum site but it’s a bit bigger than the maximum upload allowed.
Read the following sentence.
“I live next to an African Church. They like to picnic after each service.”
Who likes to picnic?
A) African churches
B) Africans
C) The congregation of the specific African church in question.
The answer is A but that is ridiculous so I went for answer B.
You say you meant the answer to be C but for C to be the intended meaning there was no need to insert the detail that the church is African. I now realise that this was artistic embelishment rather than an attempt to attribute the behaviour to the congregation’s African origins.
I think it’s clear to see where the confusion arose.
Well, most of the mess has been cleared up now, so I’m happy.
There is an old African proverb about celebrations: “Lots of mess — yes! yes! yes!”
I have every sympathy with Oliver (comment 66).
My area of SE5 is covered in filth, often blown across the street from the colonies of untied Somerfield carriers that some people think do for binbags. Dirty nappies, chicken bones, dog shit, tin cans, you name it — I hop-scotch over it.
And I couldn’t give a flying f*ck about the race of whom ever is responsible. Only that they are. So let’s give Oliver a break. Anyone who finds garbage in their garden every week would feel the same (tcha! imagine the effect on your house price, Alan).
On a more uplifting note, I believe that nearly everyone who contributes to this site is not rascist. So well done everyone. Therefore, I wouldn’t mind if we all stop being such sanctimonious, middle class bores about it.
Classist.
We haven’t mentioned house prices for some time.
The opening of a boutique hotel on Church St is surely pouring rocket fuel onto Camberwell’s booming housing market.
Anyone thinking of cashing in and moving to Crystal Palace?
In response to Mumu (67) — I am going along to the Leftovers event. It does sound intriguing, and there’s nothing quite like a bit of intrigue alongside your sausage, egg and beans. Anyone who is a fan of the fast-disappearing traditional caff should check it out, I reckon. Tickets need to be booked in advance — check out details here:
http://www.camberwellarts.org.uk/mem-morrison
In response to various posts about chewing gum on pavements — I had a friend from the US staying with me recently, and she couldn’t get over the amount of chewing gum on the pavement. We were over by Westminster at the time she mentioned it, though, not Camberwell. I have now become highly sensitive to chewing gum on pavement, and found myself monitoring it as I walk through town. Pall Mall is relatively clear of it. Charing Cross Road is relatively buried in it. Things clear-up again on reaching Bloomsbury. In Covent Garden most of the gum is stuck tidily to the edge of pavement closest to the buildings.
I have never actually seen anyone spitting gum out though. Spitting, yes, but not spitting out gum. And you never see a fresh little pile of gum lying there, just waiting to become a hardened, blackened stain. Weird.
Some of my friends are foreigners, some are gay, some Pakistani, some Indian, some African, some Lithuanian, Algerian, Polish. One even from Vanaatu. I also have white English friends, some are from London, some are from Scotland and Ireland.
I know a couple of children as well. And one woman.
What does that make me?
None of them spit out gum. That’s for sure.
Anyone noticed that there is now an al fresco drinking area outside the Silver Buckle?
Imagine the impact on house prices if they gave the Buckle a gastro makeover?!
I would have very mixed feelings about that but it’s a question of when rather than if I suppose.
How much is their lease do you reckon?
Many packets of gum.
Has anyone else noticed the small notice in the window of what used to be Hartnell’s solicitors stating that it will be turning into an Italian cafe? We will be spoilt for choice.
Curious choice of property to turn into a cafe given the availability of other plots on Church Street that wouldn’t need change of use planning permission. That’s assuming those other seemingly vacant plots with signs outside are actually “available”.
The Bickleigh on Vestry Road is to let for category or grade whatever 3 use which is as a cafe or restaurant.
The missus mentioned the Italian restaurant. Apparently it’s going to be called Lip Smacking Italian Cuisine.
If it’s as good as the African then I’ll be a regular.
Well then i think the Bickleigh should do the honourable thing and become a solicitors
There are 2 planning applications in for the Bickleigh. One is for “Demolition of existing public house building with erection of a new building on six levels including basement to form seven residential units with commercial space on part of the ground and basement floors.” Hmmm.
they seem to be doing that kind of thing with lots of pub conversions etc recently — the Paulet Arms, the Rose and Thistle, several of the pubs on Coldharbour Lane and the snooker place — preumably to ensure that they get planning permission because the community does not lose an amenity.
I cant imagine that the future residents of the new (presumably swanky) flats to be created above any of these commercial premises will appreciate living above a pub or shop or whatever so it may just mean that the commercial premises is left empty and then after a few months of not being able to attract businesses the developers will ask to make the ground floor area into residential space too (or am I being too cynical?)
One can’t possibly be over cynical when it comes to property developers’ motives.
A cursory glance at the vast majority of any new build forces this conclusion. Their design and substance is mean spirited, short sighted, the only vision being a seething desire for quick profit, the only aspiration for quality informed by the outcomes of a never ending search for ever cheaper materials that are faster to build with than brick and timber.
The Italian cafe on Church Street is where Chrysos solicitors was, then Hartnell’s. It’s being done by Frank the man who rose from The Golden Grill to give Camberwell Tadim, Mozzarella e Pomodoro and No 5 Church Street, the latter stopped during its development.
I hear that Camberwell Daily in Clarendon Terrace will be opening soon with a modest range of good quality produce, aspiring to build its range oveer months as its market develops.
Went for a wander and a pint with Merrick last night; along Denmark Hill and up the Grove. We walked past the dayglo orange sexual health centre.
At the precise moment Merrick said an afternoon visit to denmark hill was “like a war zone” I looked over my shoulder to see the little mystical shop had closed for good. Sheesh.
Street drinking is becoming the stress topic again; a fractious summer ahead methinks.
Dagmar, give ED a break. Not everyone who lives there is as rich or pretentious as you believe. You love to go on about how everyone generalises unfairly how crap, dangerous and rundown Camberwell is, yet you are doing exactly the same thing when you go on about ED residents.
I see there is at last a post box outside the Post Office on Denmark Hill.
Something new for you all to fall upon and rip to shreds.
What is happening with this blog? I used to look forward to having a read every day. I kept me in contact with Camberwell, and was informative and amusing. Now it seems to be dominated by a clique who’s only concern is to show off, bicker, indulge in one-up-manship with one another, or do that “bleeding hearts” thing — not really covering up smug middle class contempt for all things different. ( for Dagmar, in particular, the blog appears to be one big ego trip). New members seem to be driven away pretty quickly or called “trolls”. Along with people who contribute an opposing or critical view (like this) — also written off as “trolls”. i think it would do you all good to take a step back and read this from “a stranger’s” point of view — it has become truly awful.
@Mishmash- post 89
Haven’t you seen the Southwark-produced “Enough is enough” posters on street drinking, skateboarding, moped-riding etc. They have a zero-tolerance policy, so don’t fret. What the Council says, the Council does! I’m sorry — the cynicism button on my keyboard seems to be malfunctioning.
Marilee 92
It’s a Camberwell thing. At last you’ve stuck your neck out. Keep it up.
@Marilee 92
Your computer no doubt has on off button, troll!
Only joking!
I know nobody that uses this site regularly personally (at least, not knowingly). So, whilst a regular poster, I don’t consider myself an “insider”, just part of the OnLine blog “community”, if we can indeed call ourselves that. I think that Peter adopts a very liberal role as moderator. Disagreement and discussion should not be confused with disapproval. There is no “voice” of this blog, just a collection of voices. I think that you’re being a bit harsh, branding that as ego-tripping. Learn to be more tollerant, troll!
@Dagmar.
Celine & Vonnegut — a flavour to herald the next evolutionary step of crisps for the cognoscenti?
Exactly, Reg, nicely put. Nibbles for knowledge. Crisps for cliques. Snacks for claques.
Talking of arcane elites, I pedalled down to the Green today for the start of Arts Week at noon. Artist Mark McGowan and comedy terrorist Aaron Barschak were due to burn an effigy in protest against asylum deportations.
This is not a protest for the squeaky-clean, like some of you bloggers. Asylum seekers have often really offended their betters back home. I myself have done loads of things wrong. I still keep cocking up. My life is littered with mistakes, aberrations and even felonies.
I made the trip there on my ego. The “o” is the wheel, the “e” is the handlebars and the “g” is the seat.
No Barschak to be seen. Nothing at all in fact. Just a few tired middle-class attitudes blowing about in the breeze.
I went back half an hour later, still no effigy-burning, no Barschak. Anarchy! We are lucky to have such quality anarchy here in Camberwell.
The Human Rights Jukebox marched past. They were good. Then I got on my ego and pedalled off, a stranger in my own lonely void, an I with no id.
The Glebe Estate has been celebrating the Arts Festival all afternoon — still is, in fact, though the bouncy castle has now been taken away. Seems to have been a wild success, though very conventional when compared with the burning of effigies — different bands, singing, dancing, a film show (still to come), shoulder massages and so on.
I meant to go on the wildlife walk which started outside the Peckham Library, but chickened out when it started to rain. Nothing particularly artistic about wildlife, I suppose, but it’s a very inclusive festival
I like you, Carole, I think you are brilliant. You are not part of the core click, you are just a nice chick.
Il pleure dans mon coeur comme il pleut sur la ville…